Napalm the bocage! - Page 3




 
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December 15th, 2011  
42RM
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeP
That does not preclude them having questions or thoughts.
No, the difference is just that we listen and learn.
December 15th, 2011  
lljadw
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by samneanderthal
The only combat I've seen is with my former mother in law.
Is anybody familiar with what Tedder (one of the few good British leaders) thought about Monty when he refused to use the planes to finish off Rommel after el Alamein II and when he wasted a thousand tons of bombs per mile?
Is anybody familiar with what the people ,who are reading these posts ,are thinking about Sam,when he is wasting bandwidth by posting nonsense?
December 15th, 2011  
BritinAfrica
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 42RM
@sam

Next time I go to war - join me.

Then it may be that you realize that war is a big chaos and all your good ideas are not worth a ****. In combat, things happen fast and decisions must be made ​​in a split second.

I donīt understand how you can be so arrogant without having any practical experience as a soldier. You talk to people who have/had this as their profession for many years - some even with combat experience. Are you just as damned arrogant when you talk to other professionals? Do you tell the surgeon how to perform a heart surgery – the mechanic how to assemble an engine or the lawyer how to pursue a case in court?

Why are you on this forum? Why are you asking questions when you've already decided that you know better than us? Why donīt you just write a book entitled "How the world works" then we can get the answers on everything.

You are just an arrogant idiot and nitpicker without any understanding or experience in this area.
Damn right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lljadw
Is anybody familiar with what the people ,who are reading these posts ,are thinking about Sam,when he is wasting bandwidth by posting nonsense?
All I can say is, he's a wannabe.
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December 15th, 2011  
samneanderthal
 
If you drop Napalm on a hedgerow full of Germans, the people in a farmhouse are more likely to escape than those in the Hedgerow, which is the main criterion for acceptable collateral damage.

Things didn't happen in a split second with Monty. He had all the time, men and equipment to wipe out Rommel during el Alamein or after he didn't, to follow Tedder's suggestion to anihilate Rommel with the planes after el Alamein II and he had all the time in the world to request that 7,000 tons be dropped in a battle area that he knew had very poor access and would take him a long time to arrive.
He wasted thousands of British, Polish and Canadian lives because of poor planning and slow action. Just like the stupid American General in Anzio. Misplaced caution was often more costly than daring action.

Among a dozen books, the well known 1,000 ton per mile waste is mentioned by Olivier Wieviorka in his book, that was written in French but I have in spanish, Historia del desembarco de Normandia. I'm surprised that an expert like you doesn't know about it.

It is a great irony that the overly cautious Monty would launch operation MArket Garden, where thousands of paratroopers were dropped far away from allied armor and suffered tremendous losses.

“Don't be buffaloed by experts and elites. Experts often possess more data than judgment. Elites can become so inbred that they produce hemophiliacs who bleed to death as soon as they are nicked by the real world” Collin Powell.
December 15th, 2011  
Seehund
 
Monty took a calculated risk that if it had paid off would have knocked a few months off the war and left the Russians in possession of rather less Eastern European territory than they eventually ended up with.

Isn't all war about taking calculated risks and riding a knife edge between success and failure?
December 15th, 2011  
samneanderthal
 
The manner of calculating the risk is the problem. Monty with 450 tanks, etc, refused to finish off a battered Rommel with 50 tanks left at el Alamein out of calculation. He even refused to use the planes to finish him off. Out of calculation he also sent several thousand men in an area ripe with German armor (and much better than the one he faced in Africa). Those paratroopers didn't stand a chance in hell.
December 15th, 2011  
LeEnfield
 
 
Rommel may have had only 50 tanks left but those German 88 mm Guns were taking them out by the score. When Monty started the Battle at el Alemien he had nearly 1.200 tanks yet the German guns had knocked out half them in the first few days and there is no way a Sherman Tank could resist a hit from a 88 mm gun and if it was hit by any thing it was prone to burst into flames. The Desert Air force did chase Romel all across the desert, and what paratroopers are you talking about.
December 16th, 2011  
samneanderthal
 
It's really difficult to use 88 mm guns when you are on the run, the enemy rules the air and you have lost most of your cannon, men, ammunition, spares, etc,
Incredibly Rommel did make it all the way back to his base. So all the sacrifice in Malta and el Alamein was wasted, since the axis stayed in Libya and then Tunisia, until the Americans arrived.
I am talking about operation Market Garden. Where American and British paratroopers had to face tanks without the benefit of the 88 mm cannon that held Monty's tanks back after el Alamein.
December 16th, 2011  
lljadw
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by samneanderthal
It's really difficult to use 88 mm guns when you are on the run, the enemy rules the air and you have lost most of your cannon, men, ammunition, spares, etc,
Incredibly Rommel did make it all the way back to his base. So all the sacrifice in Malta and el Alamein was wasted, since the axis stayed in Libya and then Tunisia, until the Americans arrived.
I am talking about operation Market Garden. Where American and British paratroopers had to face tanks without the benefit of the 88 mm cannon that held Monty's tanks back after el Alamein.
As usual,Sam is making a fool of himself :his arrogant incompetence(or is it his incompetent arrogance?) is convincing him tat he is posting briliant things,while he only is proving his arrogant incompetence(or is it his incompetent arrogance ?)
3 blunders in ONE post :not bad .
1) until the Americans arrived : of course,Sam never heard of the first British Army of general Anderson .
2) the Axis stayed in Libya and then Tunesia ,until the Americans arrived (=operation Torch): of course,Sam is unaware,that the war in NA continued for 6 months after Torch (till may 1943)
3)MG :American and British paratroops facing German tanks :
a)as far as I know,the US para's at Eindhoven and Nijmegen did NOT face German tanks
b)as far as I know,the role of the German tanks at Arnhem was insignifiant,because the number of German tanks at Arnhem was insignifiant .
But, of course,all these things are trivial for some one who's arrogant incompetence (or is it incompetent arrogance)is convincing him of being a military genius :Sam the Great,the successor of Alexander the Great .
December 16th, 2011  
Seehund
 
Today, Operation Market Garden is commonly regarded as a misguided blunder that unnecessarily sent thousands of men to their deaths. Such views are made with the benefit of hindsight. In reality, given the conditions at the time, it was a perfectly reasonable operation to have attempted. It was a gamble whether or not it would succeed, but given the potential prize, it seemed worth the risk. Market Garden was designed to exploit the belief that the German armies were beaten and would collapse before a renewed Allied onslaught. If this assessment had proved to be true, then it is certainly possible that the war could have been over before the end of 1944, and the plan that brought it about would have been hailed as a piece of tactical genius on behalf of Field Marshal Montgomery. Instead, Market Garden proved to the Allies that the Germans were far from beaten. Not only were they still capable of organised resistance, but three months later they shocked the Allies again by launching a sudden offensive in the Ardennes.
 


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