name the war of 1812 - Page 2




 
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March 25th, 2005  
Charge 7
 
 
Can you explain the difference between

Quote:
it was really for the respect a sovereign nation deserves
and

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it was the central issue of having Britain recognize us as a sovereign power
If you aren't respected you aren't recognized. Britain felt that the sailors were her subjects and as such could be pressed into service at their will.

BTW, the French weren't in this one with us, that was another issue about 15 years earlier and we were against the French in that one. It almost became a war.
March 25th, 2005  
WarMachine
 
 
What you're saying is that britain could get away with pressing foreign sailors. That's not unrecognization, that's just feeling as though you're better than others and you can do whatever you want without reprocussion.

I'm pretty sure that there was a british ambassador to the U.S., and the treaty of paris recognized america as an independent country. Why would the uk feel as though we're not a real country? Sure there were british forts along the frontier on american soil at the time with soldiers in there, but that's just an example of america's inability to respond to a superior force. The british may not have respected us, but they did think we were an independent country.
March 26th, 2005  
Charge 7
 
 
Yeah, what do the historians know anyways? So what if virtually every history book out there says exactly what I did.

Some selected reading choices:

British Generals in the War of 1812: High Command in the Canadas by Wesley B. Turner.

Select British Documents of the Canadian War of 1812 by William C. Wood

Burning of Washington: The British Invasion of 1814 by Anthony S. Pitch.

Oh, and for good measure here's a few web sites devoted to the statement I made about The War of 1812 being The Second War for Independence:

http://americanhistory.about.com/od/warof1812/

http://www.socialstudiesforkids.com/.../warof1812.htm

http://college.hmco.com/history/read...0500_warof.htm
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March 26th, 2005  
SigPig
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
Hmm that would make it the Anglo-Amercan war.
It means the same, but it is not the same name. It depends which you prefer, sound or "flavour-"wise: the Latin "Anglo-" to represent the British, or the English word "British".

It's like:
  • The American Revolution
    The War of Independence
    That Bit of Unpleasantness in the Colonies
all mean the same war, but are different names with different flavours, if you will.

Matter o' fack, is "Revolution" an apropos name for the war? Unlike the French or Russian Revolutions, it didn't remove the regime in power -- British monarchy -- but resulted in the secession of the colonies.
March 26th, 2005  
WarMachine
 
 
Quote:
The War of 1812 being The Second War for Independence
I know they called it that. But that's a symbolic name. If you're talking about an actual name for a conflict, You'd try to make it clearer. Like how the soviets had the great patriotic war, but everyone else calls it world war 2 since that's a clearer understanding of what happened. The second war for independence just sounds ambiguous that's all.
March 26th, 2005  
Charge 7
 
 
Quote:
Matter o' fack, is "Revolution" an apropos name for the war? Unlike the French or Russian Revolutions, it didn't remove the regime in power -- British monarchy -- but resulted in the secession of the colonies.
Right, it removed them from power here in the US. Thus, The American Revolution. If it had been in Britain then it would have been the British Revolution. Still a revolution. And besides all that, removing anybody from power has nothing to do with whether or not it's a revolution. Many in the southern parts of the US saw the Civil War as the Second American Revolution as they saw it as an attempt to remove themselves from the Federal power. Whether you even succeed in removing anybody from power doesn't change the fact that you are still in revolt and thus, a revolution.


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The second war for independence just sounds ambiguous that's all.
As opposed to some other second war for independence?
March 26th, 2005  
WarMachine
 
 
How many people know what the war of attrition was? That could be any war. Maybe if they gave it a better name it would be easier to understand what was going on. Doing you think the war of the roses clicks in most people minds that it was about royal succession in the british crown? That's why i'm saying it was ambiguous, whose independece was it? You put the right names in there and people would know who's fighting who.
March 26th, 2005  
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SigPig
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
Hmm that would make it the Anglo-Amercan war.
It means the same, but it is not the same name. It depends which you prefer, sound or "flavour-"wise: the Latin "Anglo-" to represent the British, or the English word "British".

It's like:
  • The American Revolution
    The War of Independence
    That Bit of Unpleasantness in the Colonies
all mean the same war, but are different names with different flavours, if you will.

Matter o' fack, is "Revolution" an apropos name for the war? Unlike the French or Russian Revolutions, it didn't remove the regime in power -- British monarchy -- but resulted in the secession of the colonies.

I agree but its a matter of nomenclature Anglo-American war rolls of the tongue better than British-American war much in the same way Sino-British war sounds better than China-British war.
March 26th, 2005  
Charge 7
 
 
Quote:
How many people know what the war of attrition was? That could be any war. Maybe if they gave it a better name it would be easier to understand what was going on. Doing you think the war of the roses clicks in most people minds that it was about royal succession in the british crown? That's why i'm saying it was ambiguous, whose independece was it? You put the right names in there and people would know who's fighting who.
Only in the US is it common for us to say "The War for Independence" because we know we're talking about our independence. The proper term is "The War for American Independence" and as such, The War of 1812 would be titled "The Second War for American Independence". Clear enough for ya?
March 26th, 2005  
WarMachine
 
 
Wouldn't that imply however, that america was conquered and had to fight for sovereignity again? That was not the case and should not be mistaken as such.