N.Korea Army

Status
Not open for further replies.
surely by having so many SOF many of them are going to lose out on a lot of the training and skills and specialist equipment, that smaller special forces would get.?
 
Yup it is without doubt that they are the biggest threat, assuming NK don't have nukes.
The thing is we generally know how they train, what they are capable of but we don't know exactly how many there really are.
As far as we know, all 100,000 could be excellent killers. Or 50,000 are the excellent killers and 50,000 are either not up to standard or are plain decoys. I have a feeling that not all 100,000 are the commandos we all know of though. I think there is going to be a LOT, but I think the sudden ballooning in numbers from around 50,000 to 100,000 suggests that there's a deception operation going on.
 
Men I strongly suggest that you read one of the different Links that I send to help out in North Korea issue. As I told you guys in the first place I just looked over goggle and found out different Links regarding North Korea.


as always this is the internet and I have not done any deep investigation on these pages more then reading the headlines and looked in to the different subjects on the webpages. But I will look in to it now!
Click to expand...

This one is really interesting and gives a look in to a completly different perspective then any other Link this far has done. I find it really interesting so just read the big article and make up your own mind. ;)

LINK:

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article3099.htm


Best Regards:

Doc.S

:viking:
 
I think it's very misleading in the manufacturing capacity. It's got the factories for it, but lacks the materials or fuel to run them.

The US plane probably didn't take evasive action because such recon missions are rather routine. Seeing the MiGs wouldn't be a problem, but the Americans didn't want to turn back just because MiGs were showing up. I guess it was a game of "chicken" of sorts.
Both sides know a war won't break out so easily. Remember that a US Navy recon ship was once taken along with its crew and still war did not break out. Skirmishes between South Korean and North Korean troops and Navy ships used to break out on a regular basis, yet war never broke out.

We all know North Korea will engage in total war. That is the assumption. The question is do they have the material, food and supplies to make them an effective fighting force? Or the training as a whole that is. Will power makes a difference, but you still need the basics.

North Koreans being combat ready is pretty much ignorable. South Korea is combat ready as well.

The American and Korean bases near the border being evacuated is common knowledge. There are tactics on countering this but I won't discuss them here.

And it's Blitz Krieg.
Plus that part of the report assumes that most if not all of the North Korean units will be moving. First of all, those SU-25s will never come very far into South Korea. Not only are their pilots poorly trained, but South Korea will have absolute air superiority along with the Americans. So they can forget about calling in air strikes.
Old tanks such as the T-55 etc. make the bulk of the North Korean armored force. The crews of these tanks again have little or next to nothing in terms of training. The question is, how many of these will actually run? How good of gunners will the North Koreans be? How much fuel do they have? The answer to the last is, not much at all. Remember the tanks don't run on nothing.
" In case of war, the skies over Korea will be filled with fighters in close dog-fights and the A-10s would be ineffective." Couldn't be further from the truth. First of all, the USAF uses the A-10, not the US Army. Great research guys. Dogfights don't happen at the altitudes that the A-10 operates in, which is largely just above tree top level. The skies will not be filled with dogfights and fighters... except perhaps in the first opening day of the war. After that the sky will belong to South Korea and America. Anyone who actually disputes this fact is in a fantasy land.

Tunnels are a real threat though. That is true. Whereas South Korea's airborne assault capability is working to South Korea's favor, the North Koreans have the tunnel option. Because South Korea has air superiority, once detected, these units will suffer heavy casualties since they are concentrated in one spot, cut off from all support. Still enough of them will probably survive to give South Korean and American troops a hard time.

Special Forces. Again the huge number. It seems a little weird that the numbers are suddenly so high. And in this case, counted at 120,000 instead of 100,000. So that raises a LOT of questions.

Biochem warfare.
North Koreans may be prepared for biochem warfare but South Korean troops are even better prepared and equpped to meet this. Not so much with civilians but if the North Koreans use the chemical weapons, the South Korean troops will still survive and probably won't leave much of anything North Korean alive by the time the war's over.

Killing the head of the snake probably won't work, but what they can do still is isolate the snake's head. That is destroy communications relays, jam signals and also issue false orders to the North Korean units.

Manually operated AA means, manually operated. These tend to have very limited ranges and accuracy. Electronic warfare of American and South Korean units are pretty good. Especially the Americans who turned SAM killing into an art in Vietnam. North Korea's AA equipment is pretty much Vietnam era stuff without much improvement. The radar sites are as good as toast. The AA guns won't stop long ranged attacks from missiles. This will make the job from the air harder, but not impossible.

The main problem with the article is that it completely ignores South Korea's troops which is considered by many experts as one of the top militaries in the world.
Not only that, this article depends on North Korea having enough fuel, training and food for the task. Also assumes all their equipment actually works.
The thing about Vietnamese having superior tactics is incorrect. Practically every time Americans met in actual combat with the North Vietnamese, the Americans won. The only time the North Vietnamese did well initially was during the Tet Offensive. And even there the North Vietnamese were defeated in those large series of battles.

So in short, the article is actually a Worst Case Scenario of North Korea vs South Korea and America. To pull it off, North Korea will have to muster resources it's not had in decades. Also a lot of inaccuracies here and there so not a very authoritative source. Some things I don't personally am not sure if I am reluctant to take at face value because it's been wrong on things I know pretty much for sure.

Good contribution but quite a rubbish article I'm afraid.

You don't really expect me to take people who can't even spell Blitz Krieg seriously do you?



By the way I just checked out http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/
Word to the editors: Ever think about two sides of the argument?
 
OK, let me post the "Report of S.Korea Defence Ministry" about the N.Korea invasion: it claims the N.Korea can crash Seoul in 16 days.

I don't have the English source, but it is translated from English to Chinese by Chinese Phoenix TV:

Automatic translation of this report:

(Phoenix TV) on October 5 the news reported according to the overseas media that, the South Korean Department of Defense respective "the national defense college" an analysis result showed, North Korea if to the military force attacks South Korea, and starts the war the speech, Seoul's defense line, could destroy within 16 days. South Korea "the North Korean Daily" on fourth the news pointed out that, according to Department of Defense respective "national defense college" (KIDA), started from last January to implement "the simulation analysis" thought after four month-long: If North Korea suddenly starts the war to South Korea, but in US territory large-scale military strength, when is unable and the customs of the times toward the Korean Peninsula (plan appears accident), then only has by the Han national troops alone faces the North Korean armed force, but the South Korean army alone prevents the enemy, because the air force battle efficiency will lack and not the precise attack ability makes the backing, will not be able effectively to contain North Korean the long-range cannon attack, its result Seoul's defense line will be able to collapse in 16 days. The national defense college has submitted this analysis result for South Korea the first big incumbent party "the big national party" congressman plain inspires, plain inspires when fourth Department of Defense, the integrated staff state policy censorship has publicized this material. "The big national party" congressman plain inspires said, if North Korea (MDL) neighbor the front position long-range gun launches the attack with the arrangement in "the military demarcation line", only must be possible to destroy capital Seoul with a hour 1/3. According to the report analysis, in more than 12,500 wild artillery which North Korea has, the destructive power and the firing distance more prominent more than 1,000 long-range gun all has completely aimed at Seoul, is deployed in the front. If these cannon simultaneous firings, average each hour will be able to have more than 25,000 round shells to fall in Seoul, will only need a hour Seoul 1/3 to be able to destroy. The South Korean Department of Defense indicated that, Plain inspires the content which congressman disclosed is take analyzes the Han national troops' weak link as the goal, after supposes the many kinds of operational condition, is conducting the research one possibility. And said that, "This belongs to the worst condition".
 
I am playing with the tought about the possible scenarios of this worst case scenario. What I ask myselfe when I read the article is why such good referances as Gen. Thomas A Schwartz, the US commander in Korea would lie about all these facts that they behind the article are representing? Why should a four star general lie in a congressional hearing? My point is that the article has many big" ? "You know and the big "?" are not few. I am not a military expert in any way, but a war in North Korea most be played on a whole different level from Afghanistan or Iraq enviroments.

In the swedish army we learn that the terrain is our greatest friend. That was in the 70-90ths, today we are mobile and SF groups will protect swe in the future from an enemy they dont think will come. Well back to topic. I also read in the article that the North Koreans are not only highly motivated to protect there country but they have also in the last 30 years prepared themselfe for just this kind of enemy that the US and south Korea are made of today.

I have no doubt what so ever that a war of this kind really could turn aswell the public opinion and the military in general into a very embarassing position with few or no army at all left in the world. Let`s play with the thought regarding the information- these secret supplies- they are mentioning in the article.

Let´s say that the N.K have these 1.2 million tons of food, 1.46 million tons of fuel, and 1.67 million tons of ammunition that suppose to be stored in underground storage areas for wartime use.

In the 1991 Gulf War U.S took back its former status as a force ready to take down any enemy that shows up on the theater. But when I read this article I get really confused, cause what do we actually know about N.K? Probably even less then we did know about Iraq in 2003 or Afghanistan in 2001. A good example is this hacker battalion that they are talking about in the article.

When U.S forces bombed Yugoslavia and Belgrade there was hackers that interrupted US command in the mediterranien sea so that several bombing missions was interupted. I have seen fotage of downed F-117s that was hit by Strela SAMs and they are very simular to the wha-sung that they are mention, 15.000 of these weapons and they made them themselves aswell.

Well the Iraqis did have alot of weapons but it was alot of import weapons and that makes a big differance when it comes to maintanance and upkeep the weapons in working condition. Another fact that I took in mind was the terrain and with these old AA-guns that proved to be not to effective in opend deserts but they can be very leathal in a djungel.

The ranges are totaly different from a desert war and one more thing that concerns me is if the US military can put in any form of M1A2-M1A1s in the battles on the ground that will be necessary in a much greater scale then in any of these three wars we have seen in this éra? US tankers are the best in the world. But can they still be involved in any operations in the N.K more then in the citys and on well built roads? probably, if there was any.

I have read about commanders in Bosnia that could not move there M1s because they were simply to heavy for the ground. I can see a lot of connections between this article and real life problems on the field to be honest.

Airwar in the desert is easy, if you got the techology but airwar over tree tops in the djungel and with mountains and other obsticals in the way and suppose the N.K got advance equipment for jaming modern fighters well then all the advantages that U.S got in the Gulf War is practically gone.

I know also from the Vietnam war that the VC or the NVA really made damage to american pilots over that battle field and they put up a fight I dont think anyone has done ever in the history of war, more then maby Adolf Hitlers elite unit or the emperor of Japan. I belive that N.K has the worlds most motivated army at the moment to be honest.

They have 30 years indoctrination behind them and I find it very hard to belive that their motivation is low when I read in these article about suicide and resistance to the death. They believe in something and I think they are as ready as they can be.

The big intelligence agencys has proved to have a lot of information but still forces in the gouverment interpret the information a litte bit funny to be honest. Today I have to say that I have more trust for this article then I have for any other thing I have been reading so far on the net or in the news papers on this subject because a lot of it makes sence.

But if there is something more convincing then this article I would gladly look into it because I have been fooled before and all this talk about lack of fuel, bad equipment and so on makes me not to convinced with all respect towards all persons that belive that North Korea would be as easy as Afghanistan or Irak to put down.

These guys are playing in a whole different series of footbal to make this message more understandable. To be honest - It is damn scarry and I do now know why president George W Bush made that statement about forces of evil. Well, I would not put my hand in this wasps' nest for a million bucks with todays weapon or equipment.

Dont get me wrong I dont see N.K as a force of evil but I can understand that the president also got these news on his table and that this concerns him alot. I dont agree with N.K about many things because I like democray and I like this kind of freedom. N.K is "evil" in the sence that I fear them as I do fear the Middle East region, but they are not comparable. It is two different types of fear thats for sure. :|

In spite of such a massive deployment of intelligence collection assets, the US intelligence on North Korea is faulty at best. Donald Gregg, a former US ambassador to Seoul and a 30-year CIA veteran, has admitted that the US intelligence on North Korea has been the longest lasting story of failure in the annals of US intelligence.
Click to expand...

Most Sincerly:
Doc.S

:viking:
 
I think in a post-Korean war II situation, we'll really see the aftermaths of the works of evil up in North Korea.

Staff jockies always want to make things look as bad as possible so they get funding. If things are "fine and dandy," the first thing that'll happen is defense budget cuts.
Also in simulations you want to run the worst case scenario. i.e. all the enemy's hardware runs, and it can run for a long time.
 
I dont know, this smells like a la drang valley november 1965 flashback to me when I read the article and on the same time look at other places on the Internet, TV, News papers and at western analys reports on the N.K strength on paper and assumed information.

They have been right on the Afghanistan, Iraq and probably on the Iran issue about strength on paper. Western N.K analysis I dont give a bottle of horse piss for to be honest in this special subject. People have lied before about wars and equipment of the enemys they are going to face. This one smells like a good reason for a lie to get the wheels rolling.

I would still not be to surprised if you are right the_13th_redneck about the funding and the worst scenario simulations you are mentioning. Infact I belive or should I put it like this.. I really hope that you guys are right on this one.

I think young soldiers are leaving us and their relatives far to soon allready in this middle east conflict in my humble opinion. They are doing a great job and protects not only Iraqi citizens side by side with Iraqi forces and allies but also the west. Who knows where in the world these street terrorists would be otherwise? Soldiers protect many things with their lifes down there without hesitation on there mission or their commander in chef.

I only hope that whoever wins this election in U.S has a really good plan if there is a crisis that could mean U.S forces to the Gulf of Chili or Sea of Japan, because I am more concerned about N.K then I am of a possible operation against Iran where you almost can tell what the Iranian leaders have been eating for lunch by the foodstains on there clothes from sattelites around the globe, while we still dont know what caused a major explosion big as a smaller tactical atomic bomb in the N.K last month.

I hope that South Korea and North Korea (the world leaders) can co exist without repeating the history and experiance another la drang valley scenario in a larger scale or eather worse another Hiroshima, Nagasaki but this time at our own backyards and this time with more players then N.K involved.

Because my humble opinion is.. if one shoot, there will be more countries who follows and they will play along and make up some old scores and that includes countries that are our allies today. This is why I find this South vs North Korea so scarry. :|

Best Regards:
Doc.S

:viking:
 
Just in case you don't know:

China and N.Korea have a mutual defence help pact, if N.Korea is engaged in war, Chinese troops will be in, according to a Chinese article published today, if the war is in a limited scale, China will put in at least 400,000 troops/800 jets/180 navy ships to help N.Korea, if war goes out of hand, then China will put everything in.
 
These days there are many articles in Chinese media about China/N.Korea, since over a couple of days it is the 55 years annivesiry of Korea War in which Chinese and N.Koreans fought shouder to shouder like brothers.
 
South Korea and the USA have a mutual defense pact as well. And of course there is the UN comission which is supposed to bring in additional UN forces if South Korea is attacked. Of course China could veto that now but I don't think that veto will make a difference.
Plus if you bring China into the war, it affects Japan's security so the Japanese Self Defense Force with its advanced weapons will be deploying full strength into the Yellow Sea.
And then Russia might decide to support South Korea because it has important trade links with South Korea. So much business is done that in Busan, some bartenders can speak fluent Russian.
Expect troops from the USA, Canada, UK and Japan to show up.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top