The Mysterious Iranian Threat - Page 7




 
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July 6th, 2012  
viper2007
 
 
Greetings VDKMS,

When you said that all Malaysians are born Muslims- I challenged that because that statement was infered to be all citizens of Malaysia- which is not true. By your response, I now understand you are referring to Malays- I hope I am not wrong in my assumption.

You may wish to note that there ARE Malay Christians in both Singapore and Malaysia. I have a former schoolmate who was born Muslim but converted to Christianity at a later age. I decided to remain friends though many others shunned him- why they did that? I don't really know... All I can say is that it is the mentality of the people who did what they did. I decided to still continue to be friends because I see him as a person, not a Christian, not a Muslim, but a person...

It is very natural behaviour for an ethnic group, when they congregate at a given location, will start to try to impose their beliefs and culture on the very population they are in, especially when their numbers are large enough... They forget why they are there in the first place. It is the local authorities job to ensure that harmony is maintained. In Singapore, we faced the same issue when PRCs (Chinese mainlanders) came in large numbers- some start to demand that things be done here to suit them, in order words, the way it is done back home. It create tensions, though minor, even with the local Chiniese population. The authorities put a stop to many such moves (by the PRCs). It is not religous, but the trend is the same.

When an ethnic group gains superiority in numbers, it is very natural for one to try to exert some form of control over others- is it not why Spain has no lyrices to its National Anthem- because of the many diverse ethnic faction in Spain?

As for education, Islam does not forbid anyone from learning- male or female. What you mentioned about the Pakistanis, the Afghans, or the Taleban- that goes along tribal or ethnic culture lines- not Islam. Allow me to share some of my Malay culture and believe with you...- many years back, only the boys in the Malay comunity were given all the opportunities for education- the girls were given the rudimentary basics in education, and that would be it...

Why? the concept and understanding is this- why do I need to give my daughters so much education because they will be married and end up in the kitchen- you do not need a degree to be able to run a kitchen and cook meals. I am happy that that mentality is thing of the past now. Both female and male are given EQUAL opportunities to education.

So, my good friend, this argument that religion is bad does not stand. Religion is based on beliefs- and most of these set of beliefs are idealistic. It is the people that will carry out these beliefs according to their interpretation.
July 6th, 2012  
VDKMS
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by viper2007
Greetings VDKMS,

When you said that all Malaysians are born Muslims- I challenged that because that statement was infered to be all citizens of Malaysia- which is not true. By your response, I now understand you are referring to Malays- I hope I am not wrong in my assumption.

You may wish to note that there ARE Malay Christians in both Singapore and Malaysia. I have a former schoolmate who was born Muslim but converted to Christianity at a later age. I decided to remain friends though many others shunned him- why they did that? I don't really know... All I can say is that it is the mentality of the people who did what they did. I decided to still continue to be friends because I see him as a person, not a Christian, not a Muslim, but a person...

It is very natural behaviour for an ethnic group, when they congregate at a given location, will start to try to impose their beliefs and culture on the very population they are in, especially when their numbers are large enough... They forget why they are there in the first place. It is the local authorities job to ensure that harmony is maintained. In Singapore, we faced the same issue when PRCs (Chinese mainlanders) came in large numbers- some start to demand that things be done here to suit them, in order words, the way it is done back home. It create tensions, though minor, even with the local Chiniese population. The authorities put a stop to many such moves (by the PRCs). It is not religous, but the trend is the same.

When an ethnic group gains superiority in numbers, it is very natural for one to try to exert some form of control over others- is it not why Spain has no lyrices to its National Anthem- because of the many diverse ethnic faction in Spain?

As for education, Islam does not forbid anyone from learning- male or female. What you mentioned about the Pakistanis, the Afghans, or the Taleban- that goes along tribal or ethnic culture lines- not Islam. Allow me to share some of my Malay culture and believe with you...- many years back, only the boys in the Malay comunity were given all the opportunities for education- the girls were given the rudimentary basics in education, and that would be it...

Why? the concept and understanding is this- why do I need to give my daughters so much education because they will be married and end up in the kitchen- you do not need a degree to be able to run a kitchen and cook meals. I am happy that that mentality is thing of the past now. Both female and male are given EQUAL opportunities to education.

So, my good friend, this argument that religion is bad does not stand. Religion is based on beliefs- and most of these set of beliefs are idealistic. It is the people that will carry out these beliefs according to their interpretation.
If all Muslims would behave like you there wouldn't be any problem. I also believe that the overwhelming majority of all people are peacefull. The problem is the fanatical minority. And as of today the most problems are caused by Islamic fanatics.
Look at the Arab Spring. It were mostly secular people who started the removal of the dictators only to see fanatical muslims demanding sharia law. If you want to live according the sharia law, that's ok with me but I won't live in a country who's constitution is based on that law. A democratic constitution must be neutral, no religious meddling.
There are countless fanatic Islamic groups who want only one thing: be in charge and subjugate everyone to sharia law. People all over the world are tired of it and will stand up and the problem is: to them a muslim is a muslim no distinction. This means that the moderate muslims will take the brunt. It already happend in Spain were native people burned down a muslim neighborhood and the police did not intervene. Moderate muslims must be more vocal about those fanatics and actual engage them together with the others. It has happend before in Spain with temporal succes. El Cid recaptured Valencia with a Christian/Moorish army.

What you said about etnic groups gaining superiority is true. If Palestinians would have attacked Jewish immigrants almost 100 years ago I would understand and maybe concur with their action, unfortunately they attacked Jewish people who lived their for generations and some of them were praying at a wall that was Jewish before any mosque was build. The attackers were not common Palestinian people but Islamic fanatics and messed up the lives of Palestinians up until today. (Yes I know there are fanatic Jews also)

If you ever come to Spain let me know, I'll buy you a drink (I don't drink alcohol, only a glas of wine once in a while) and maybe we can visit Alhambra, a very beautiful Moorish castle.
July 7th, 2012  
viper2007
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by VDKMS
If all Muslims would behave like you there wouldn't be any problem. I also believe that the overwhelming majority of all people are peacefull. The problem is the fanatical minority. And as of today the most problems are caused by Islamic fanatics.
Look at the Arab Spring. It were mostly secular people who started the removal of the dictators only to see fanatical muslims demanding sharia law. If you want to live according the sharia law, that's ok with me but I won't live in a country who's constitution is based on that law. A democratic constitution must be neutral, no religious meddling.
There are countless fanatic Islamic groups who want only one thing: be in charge and subjugate everyone to sharia law. People all over the world are tired of it and will stand up and the problem is: to them a muslim is a muslim no distinction. This means that the moderate muslims will take the brunt. It already happend in Spain were native people burned down a muslim neighborhood and the police did not intervene. Moderate muslims must be more vocal about those fanatics and actual engage them together with the others. It has happend before in Spain with temporal succes. El Cid recaptured Valencia with a Christian/Moorish army.

What you said about etnic groups gaining superiority is true. If Palestinians would have attacked Jewish immigrants almost 100 years ago I would understand and maybe concur with their action, unfortunately they attacked Jewish people who lived their for generations and some of them were praying at a wall that was Jewish before any mosque was build. The attackers were not common Palestinian people but Islamic fanatics and messed up the lives of Palestinians up until today. (Yes I know there are fanatic Jews also)

If you ever come to Spain let me know, I'll buy you a drink (I don't drink alcohol, only a glas of wine once in a while) and maybe we can visit Alhambra, a very beautiful Moorish castle.
there you have it friend, I could not agree more with your opening statement. If every Muslim were to practice the true tenets of Islam, then we would not have this. Just like the IRA using the issue of religion, just like the Tamil Tigers using the the issue of religion, just like the... well. you know what I mean, VDKMS...

And I thank you for that offer, I had been to Spain- about 10 years ago- did a medical evac for someone, but I did manage to have a little sightseeing- beautiful country...
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July 7th, 2012  
hamidreza
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by viper2007
there you have it friend, I could not agree more with your opening statement. If every Muslim were to practice the true tenets of Islam, then we would not have this. Just like the IRA using the issue of religion, just like the Tamil Tigers using the the issue of religion, just like the... well. you know what I mean, VDKMS...

And I thank you for that offer, I had been to Spain- about 10 years ago- did a medical evac for someone, but I did manage to have a little sightseeing- beautiful country...
First I suggest you to find the main accused and then defend every one you want. They are not judge and Muslims are not accused. The main problem of the world is not Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism or any other religions. The main problem is global imperialism and the dirty Zionist network.
Most of the countries who are against the US and allies are not Muslim, such as Russia, China, Venezuela, Cuba and the others…. .
The US military budget is about half of the whole world military budget and you add the allies budget to it. Why they spend this amount of money while they are objecting about the other countries military activities? to protect their freedom or to maintain and increase their domination on the world?
VDKMS is care about buying their supermarkets by Muslims but he doesn’t say anything about attacking the ME countries by US and allies every ten years. He doesn’t say anything about killing ME people by the west soldiers. He doesn’t say anything about supporting ME dictatorships by west to support their interest and instead they plunder their resources and sell their weapons. He doesn't say about supporting counterfeit Israel regime which is the main problem in ME or even in the world. And many other things…
It is not good to be a real Muslim, it is good to be a real noble man.
July 7th, 2012  
VDKMS
 
Today the US is the sole superpower and bears the responsibility to play world police.
The US is a democracy. Their enemies are not.
Russia is an oligarchy. China still has a one party system. Venezuela and Cuba are dictatorships.
Iran is Shia, Iraq's Sadam Sunni. Iran was not able to defeat the attack of Sadam , it was a bloody stalemate. The US did what Iran was not able to do: defeat Sadam and give Iraq a pro Iranian shia ruled government and you are complaining?
The Arab countries are rich thanks to the western world. They discovered and pumped the oil while Arab countries gained lots of money. Wait until the oil dries up and the Arab richness will plummet.
Selling weapons is big business. Iran, China and almost all weapon producing countries does it. The US has the advantage that their weapons are battle proven. Armies want weapons that work.
You are angry at the US because they know what Iran is up to. They discovered the secret build nuclear research plant that still is off limits to the IAEA.
July 8th, 2012  
viper2007
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hamidreza
First I suggest you to find the main accused and then defend every one you want. They are not judge and Muslims are not accused. The main problem of the world is not Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism or any other religions. The main problem is global imperialism and the dirty Zionist network.
Most of the countries who are against the US and allies are not Muslim, such as Russia, China, Venezuela, Cuba and the others…. .
The US military budget is about half of the whole world military budget and you add the allies budget to it. Why they spend this amount of money while they are objecting about the other countries military activities? to protect their freedom or to maintain and increase their domination on the world?
VDKMS is care about buying their supermarkets by Muslims but he doesn’t say anything about attacking the ME countries by US and allies every ten years. He doesn’t say anything about killing ME people by the west soldiers. He doesn’t say anything about supporting ME dictatorships by west to support their interest and instead they plunder their resources and sell their weapons. He doesn't say about supporting counterfeit Israel regime which is the main problem in ME or even in the world. And many other things…
It is not good to be a real Muslim, it is good to be a real noble man.
A real Muslim...? What is YOUR definition of a real Muslim, then?

I would be most interested to hear from you...

Have you asked yourself these question-

1. Why are those countries against the US, as you put it?

2. If given the opportunity, would anyone from these countries migrate to the US? If given the opportunity, would a US citizen migrate to these countries? If so, why?

3. So what if the budget of the US for military spending is high? Why should it bother you?
July 8th, 2012  
hamidreza
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by viper2007
A real Muslim...? What is YOUR definition of a real Muslim, then?

I would be most interested to hear from you...
You claim about real Muslim and then you ask me about it?
Quote:
If every Muslim were to practice the true tenets of Islam, then we would not have this.
Quote:
Have you asked yourself these question-

1. Why are those countries against the US, as you put it?
Why they are? .Because global imperialism with US leading is swallowing the enormous human and material resources of the world. If nobody stand against this terrible war machine, the future of the world will be dreadful. These countries should form new block to prevent the US to be mono pole in the world.

Quote:
2. If given the opportunity, would anyone from these countries migrate to the US? If given the opportunity, would a US citizen migrate to these countries? If so, why?
People from these countries migrate to the US but the Americans don’t migrate to these countries. Well what is the result? We should learn from them how to live? Let me ask you a question. Is it possible all the people in the world live like Americans, spend money like them, consume energy and other resource like them, produce greenhouse gas like them and many other things? No just a few percent can live in this way. The earth doesn't have this capacity. And be sure imperialism doesn’t let you to be one of those few percent.


The bad part of this story is the gap between the life level of rich and poor countries is increasing every day.



Quote:
3. So what if the budget of the US for military spending is high? Why should it bother you?
Yes I am bother about it and I said my reason. But you haven’t answered this question yet. why they spend this amount of money for their army?
July 8th, 2012  
viper2007
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hamidreza
You claim about real Muslim and then you ask me about it?
Why they are? .Because global imperialism with US leading is swallowing the enormous human and material resources of the world. If nobody stand against this terrible war machine, the future of the world will be dreadful. These countries should form new block to prevent the US be mono pole in the world.

People from these countries migrate to the US but the Americans don’t migrate to these countries. Well what is the result? We should learn from them how to live? Let me ask you a question. Is it possible all the people in the world live like Americans, spend money like them, consume energy and other resource like them, produce greenhouse gas like them and many other things? No just a few percent can live in this way. The earth doesn't have this capacity. And be sure imperialism doesn’t let you to be one of those few percent.


The bad part of this story is the gap between the life level of rich and poor countries is increasing every day.



Yes I am bother about it and I said my reason. But you haven’t answered this question yet. why they spend this amount of money for their army?
Perhaps with so many postings, it got lost somewhere, if you would be so kind to enlighten me once more...

The diffference in gap between the rich and the poor is increasing everyday- and this happens in the US only, in Iran this does not exist? It happens everywhere, my friend...

And those so-called poor countries- they should look to themselves for the reasons instead of blaming others for their woes. And if you take a closer look at some of these so-called poor countries leaders- they don't look poor. Some of their leaders are realy living it up!

As to the reason for Americans spending so much on military, this is a question that you have to ask them- the Americans. If you understand American doctrine on defence, then you would know why...

And to end, when the earthquake follwed by the tsunami hit Indonesia- a very largely Muslim populated country, the so-called might of the US Navy was put to mercy relief work, providing much needed food and clothing supplies, supporting neighbouring countries in providing assistance to that country. I did not hear of the Iranian Navy doing the same thing...
 


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