Originally Posted by benaakatz

the iranian regime is a threat to the world because it clings to fundamentalist islam and ideally, if it could, would export it worldwide. a cleric just took out an $100,000 hit on an iranian in germany for writing something the regime didn't like.

the regime brutally suppresses its own people and is responsible for the ongoing massacre of syrians who simply want democracy

i mean, come on guys. it's not rocket science why the iranian regime is a threat and despised worldwide

And how many people has the Israeli government killed to protect its own ideology?

Spare me the they are bad, we are good nonsense the fact is we all do what is necessary to further our own aims, the Iranian "threat" has nothing to do with religion or form of government that is the excuse we use (and they use to justify actions) the threat is that they are playing the same games we are and we don't like to share.

this isn't a discussion about the israelis.

now answer my points.

I did, just cause you don't like the answer doesn't mean the question isn't answered.

2300-2400 years ago Socrates and Plato weren’t agree with democracy system in Greece because they thought that system didn’t elect the best one but it elected who did the best propaganda. I don’t want to say they were right or wrong but I’m sure today the media have the most influence on the world people behaviors and absolutely the media guidance is in the west capitalists’ hands.
So for the countries such as Iran we need to have a control on our media not too much because the freedom in media is necessary for any society and is very useful but on the other hand we should be care these media don’t be guided by hegemonic states. We should do a balance between them. About other thing such as elections we the condition is the same .

Originally Posted by MontyB

Oh come on if Iran was pro-American they would have nuclear power and probably weapons with the blessings of the US government but instead they choose not to be in the pocket of the USA or anyone really and they are paying for that independence with sanctions and isolation.

I recall the year New Zealand said it didn't want nuclear power or weapons on its shores and how Regan decided that was a threat to world peace, we still have military and economic sanctions over that because the last thing the USA needs is a sudden outbreak of peace or equality in the world.

If Iran complies with the IAEA they will get their nuclear power. It has nothing to do with pro or anti US.

About New Zealand. I never heard that Reagan considered that a threat to world peace. The problem with the NZ government was twofold.
One : It takes months of logistical work before ships can dock in harbors. Water and food supplies are bought well in advance. An AC has about 4.500 people on board. You can't go suddenly to the local supermarket and buy a weekly food supply. The NZ move caused mayor rerouting for ships that were to visit NZ. Contracts had to be canceled with propably court battles.
Second: Nuclear powered vessels were not welcome in NZ harbors, but defending it seems not to be a problem. Go to another port and fight for us from there! Nice allies I would say.

Iran is not a threat to world peace, the Iranian regime is. It is a religious fanatic regime that do not allow their people to have freedom. They brutally crushed a demand for more democracy. They are doing the same in Syria. They want the destruction of Israel although that country never talked about the destruction of Iran. In Lebanon they armed Hezbollah (in defiance of a UN resolution) with thousands of missiles instead of the Lebanese army to defend itself. They don't care about UN counsil resolutions, which are enforcable and they wonder why they are getting sanctions. They threatened to close a vital international waterway. They shut down traffic devices on their tankers in defiance of international sea law. And I can go on and on.

Today the US is the only super power. They have the responsability to watch over the international trade lines which are very important to the global trade system. So, every country that uses those trade lines benefit from US power.

If you think that the world would be better of without a mighty US, think again.

Originally Posted by VDKMS

If Iran complies with the IAEA they will get their nuclear power. It has nothing to do with pro or anti US.

About New Zealand. I never heard that Reagan considered that a threat to world peace. The problem with the NZ government was twofold.
One : It takes months of logistical work before ships can dock in harbors. Water and food supplies are bought well in advance. An AC has about 4.500 people on board. You can't go suddenly to the local supermarket and buy a weekly food supply. The NZ move caused mayor rerouting for ships that were to visit NZ. Contracts had to be canceled with propably court battles.
Second: Nuclear powered vessels were not welcome in NZ harbors, but defending it seems not to be a problem. Go to another port and fight for us from there! Nice allies I would say.

Yes but much like the Iraqi WMD threat it is impossible for Iran to meet the IAEA requirements because the goalposts keep moving, I am prepared to bet that Iran can have nuclear power as long as it turns over control of that program to either America, China or Russia and it is quite clear that they want to be self-sufficient and good on them for that.

As for the rest, New Zealand's anti-nuclear policy caused no "major" re-routing of ships or anything else for that matter, one ship the destroyer USS Buchanan was refused entry because the US would not declare to the New Zealand government whether it was carrying nuclear weapons or not.

However it was also realised that the Buchanan was selected specifically to test the legislation as recorded on the Buchanan's own website...

1985 - In early 1985, the Reagan administration selected the Buchanan, with its Nuclear Capable ASROC, to test the new Non-nuclear policies instituted by New Zealand. Permission to enter was denied causing the US State Department to cut off all intelligence to the Kiwis and canceled all future military maneuvers. America also would no longer sit at the ANZUS table with Kiwi reps.

http://www.uss-buchanan-ddg14.org/

So given that the US could have sent any number of ships to New Zealand that would have met our entry requirements they chose one they knew wouldn't in order to create confrontation I think we have every right to return your comment by saying some ally they were.

Here is an interesting write up...
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1...oviet-presence

Seems the Soviets were going to get us but they seem to have gotten lost on the way.

Originally Posted by VDKMS

Iran is not a threat to world peace, the Iranian regime is. It is a religious fanatic regime that do not allow their people to have freedom. They brutally crushed a demand for more democracy. They are doing the same in Syria. They want the destruction of Israel although that country never talked about the destruction of Iran. In Lebanon they armed Hezbollah (in defiance of a UN resolution) with thousands of missiles instead of the Lebanese army to defend itself. They don't care about UN counsil resolutions, which are enforcable and they wonder why they are getting sanctions. They threatened to close a vital international waterway. They shut down traffic devices on their tankers in defiance of international sea law. And I can go on and on.

Today the US is the only super power. They have the responsability to watch over the international trade lines which are very important to the global trade system. So, every country that uses those trade lines benefit from US power.

If you think that the world would be better of without a mighty US, think again.

So who is the US arming?
You don't see the hypocrisy in a nation that makes trillions in arms sales many of which end up in the hands of nefarious and dodgy regimes who are hell bent on suppressing their own populations through the use of those weapons getting all upset about another nation doing exactly the same thing?

Yes I know we are right they are wrong we don't need to look at our actions only accept that what we do we do for the benefit of others and would never put our own best interests above those of someone else while they are all dodgy, evil doers out to control the world.

Originally Posted by MontyB

I did, just cause you don't like the answer doesn't mean the question isn't answered.

I have found the touchy soft spot of this topic to always devolve to the same basis.

People on either side just looking for others in the end to agree with them and say the same things they are saying.

In this respect no wonder little has changed between Iran / Israel in 30 years.

And the U.S. is putting itself on a boat sailing right into the middle of it.

Originally Posted by MontyB

Yes but much like the Iraqi WMD threat it is impossible for Iran to meet the IAEA requirements because the goalposts keep moving, I am prepared to bet that Iran can have nuclear power as long as it turns over control of that program to either America, China or Russia and it is quite clear that they want to be self-sufficient and good on them for that.

It is not only the US that makes trouble out of Iran's nuclear plan(t)s. It's also the IAEA. Iran signed the NPT but did not adhere to it by building a nuclear plant in secret. They also violate a UN counsil resolution. Even Israel complies to UN counsil resolutions. Iran created the mess they are in themselves.

As for the rest, New Zealand's anti-nuclear policy caused no "major" re-routing of ships or anything else for that matter, one ship the destroyer USS Buchanan was refused entry because the US would not declare to the New Zealand government whether it was carrying nuclear weapons or not.

However it was also realised that the Buchanan was selected specifically to test the legislation as recorded on the Buchanan's own website...


http://www.uss-buchanan-ddg14.org/

So given that the US could have sent any number of ships to New Zealand that would have met our entry requirements they chose one they knew wouldn't in order to create confrontation I think we have every right to return your comment by saying some ally they were.

Here is an interesting write up...
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1...oviet-presence

Of course it is NZ right to have a nuclear free zone (a nuclear free world would even be better) but then they must be willing to accept the consequences. (Shultz words). In my opinion you cannot profit from the nuclear US umbrella and denying those defending ships a port.
I think NZ would have better stepped out of the alliance claiming their anti-nuclear policy.

Seems the Soviets were going to get us but they seem to have gotten lost on the way.

yes, they fell apart. But not because of NZ

So who is the US arming?
You don't see the hypocrisy in a nation that makes trillions in arms sales many of which end up in the hands of nefarious and dodgy regimes who are hell bent on suppressing their own populations through the use of those weapons getting all upset about another nation doing exactly the same thing?

Arming other nations is more big business than stirring troubles. China, Russia and Iran don't mind selling (giving) weapons to rogue nations and even terrorist groups. Did it ever occured to you that Iran does not apply to any resolution voted against them? That is typical (fanatic) Islamic behaviour. You have to comply to their rules.

Yes I know we are right they are wrong we don't need to look at our actions only accept that what we do we do for the benefit of others and would never put our own best interests above those of someone else while they are all dodgy, evil doers out to control the world.

You are missing the point. If you want to join the international community you must behave. Even China is adapting to international "behaviour"

the UN counsel resolution, the nuclear plant in secret, the secret plan for making WMD, terrorist supporting and the other excuses are well-worn and don't deceive the people who really want to find the truth. If a person be fair enough it will be clear for him how the world international organizations are influenced by the west. I recommend you find new excuse.