My thoughts on the Tucson, AZ shooting

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5.56X45mm

5.56X45mm

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Today is a horrible day in Tucson, Arizona. One Federal Judge killed, one nine year old child killed, a Congresswoman from the House of Representatives fighting for her life, and many other victims injured and more possibly killed. The actions taken by the subject go against everything American. It goes against our Freedom of Speech, Freedom to Keep and Bear Arms, Freedom of Assembly, and our Right to Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness.


I pray for the victims, I pray for the swift but proper application of justice, I pray for those that lost their lives today that they find peace, and I pray that We the People of these United State of America show our compassion in love and our strength in justice to this vile scum and to those all across the world. May we judge the criminal for his actions and not the innocent law abiding public. May our legal system prevail in administering proper justice and not stripping our fellow citizens of their rights.


In the end, I ask that we lower our flags, place the mourning bands on our badges, and pray for those hurt by today's event. Let us pray for the swift but correct application of justice to the person responsible for this heinous crime. Lastly, let us show the world our compassion by standing together with our fellow Americans and support them in their times of need.
 
While my prayers go out to the victims. What I really want to know is what is this douchebags story.
 
Damn shame about the loss of life.
I have the same questions about why this guy did what he did. And what was the reason behind his choice of target?
Hmmm... seems a bit weird to me right now.
 
5.56X45mm said:
Today is a horrible day in Tucson, Arizona. One Federal Judge killed, one nine year old child killed, a Congresswoman from the House of Representatives fighting for her life, and many other victims injured and more possibly killed. The actions taken by the subject go against everything American. It goes against our Freedom of Speech, Freedom to Keep and Bear Arms, Freedom of Assembly, and our Right to Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness.


I pray for the victims, I pray for the swift but proper application of justice, I pray for those that lost their lives today that they find peace, and I pray that We the People of these United State of America show our compassion in love and our strength in justice to this vile scum and to those all across the world. May we judge the criminal for his actions and not the innocent law abiding public. May our legal system prevail in administering proper justice and not stripping our fellow citizens of their rights.


In the end, I ask that we lower our flags, place the mourning bands on our badges, and pray for those hurt by today's event. Let us pray for the swift but correct application of justice to the person responsible for this heinous crime. Lastly, let us show the world our compassion by standing together with our fellow Americans and support them in their times of need.
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Well I guess someone has to say it but isn't the "Freedom to Bear Arms" inextricably linked with the crime in this case so I kind of think that may be one phrase you would want to avoid using in these instances.

As for the rest, yes it is unfortunate but not surprising.
 
It goes against our Freedom of Speech, Freedom to Keep and Bear Arms, Freedom of Assembly, and our Right to Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness.
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Could this been part of reason? She was perceived by the far right of attacking those liberties, and her office had been recently trashed for supporting the health reform bill.

Here is some of the background

Politically, Ms Giffords is a centrist, as are most Democrats from her state.
She is part of the blue dog caucus in the House of Representatives, a group of fiscally conservative, moderate Democrats.

She upset Arizona conservatives by supporting President Barack Obama's health-care reform bill, a move which landed her on Sarah Palin's list of politicians to remove from office in the mid-terms last November.

She faced a tough challenge from a Tea Party candidate, Jesse Kelly, but won by a narrow margin of just 4,000 votes.

Although she voted against President George W Bush's economic bail-out bill in 2008 - the bill ultimately failed - she voted for Mr Obama's American Recovery and Reinvestment Act the following year.

Ms Giffords has advocated for immigration reform, and supported legislation that included a guest worker programme and a path to citizenship for illegal immigrants - measures that are deeply opposed by most conservatives.

She has also expressed support for alternative energy, in particular, solar power.
Ms Giffords is passionate about military issues and served on the Armed Services Committee. Military contractors are a big employer in her district.

She has been deeply engaged in military issues, helping craft the GI bill which assists veterans of the Iraq and Afghanistan conflict in obtaining college degrees.
Paul Rieckhoff, executive director of Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America, said she was "a huge voice for veterans and the military".

During the last Congress she chaired the space and aeronautics committee. Her brother-in-law is also an astronaut who is currently in space.
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-12143984

or perhaps someone took Sarah Palin literally. No doubt she now regrets that telescopic sight in her campaign!
　
Quote:
The congresswoman, Gabrielle Giffords, had been one of 20 names on a "hit list" issued by Sarah Palin, complete with graphics of a rifle-like telescopic sight. Ms Palin, of course, meant that she was to be targeted by voters in the mid-term elections.

But after the shooting, Ms Palin's Facebook site was filled with people blaming her for creating the atmosphere where this could happen. Equally, Twitter was full of right-wingers accusing the left of reacting before they knew the facts, or even blaming the left for the shooting.
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereport...iffords_s.html

Mr. Loughner had exhibited increasingly strange behavior in recent months, including ominous Internet postings — at least one showing a gun — and a series of videos in which he made disjointed statements on topics like the gold standard and mind control.

Pima Community College said he had been suspended for conduct violations and withdrew in October after five instances of classroom or library disruptions that involved the campus police.
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http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/09/us/politics/09giffords.html?_r=2&hp

I have also read that the Gunman was refused admission into the Army

Sooner or later you have to admit the gun culture is part of the problem, and restricts the right to be safe on the streets more than the right to defend oneself! The word 'rights' and 'freedom' are the most misused and manipulated words in the Dictionary since individuals 'rights' can also restrict societies more basic freedoms.
 
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She is pretty middle ground. Pro-Gun, Pro-Troops, and Pro-Business. But also she was Pro-Choice, and Pro-Welfare. She's what we called a Blue Dog Democrat. We might not agree politically but I nor anyone else I know would favor ill will towards her or someone else.
 
A Can of Man said:
Damn shame about the loss of life.
I have the same questions about why this guy did what he did. And what was the reason behind his choice of target?
Hmmm... seems a bit weird to me right now.
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While I am as shocked, hurt and ashamed as the people voicing their sentiments right before me, I cannot hold back that this was something announced and bound to happen with the climate certain political forces have built up in the US (at least judging from this forum and the press we get here in Europe):

sarah_palin_gun_bikini.jpg


MontyB said:
-snip- ...it is unfortunate but not surprising.
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Indeed. Sowing wind will have you harvest storm:

sarah-palin-hit-list.png


There you go, and we dont learn, and what is worse: We dont want to learn, a lot of interested people are just looking for those idiot wannabe terrorists to clear our political agendas towards making the rich richer, and we even praise them befor the act...

Later (why?) we suddenly are all crodcodile tears. Until it hits our own.

THINK (even if some ppl tell you asking this is inherently anti-american) and stop this **** *before* it hits you and yours!

88.000 ppl + 7 now killed in 2010 in the US through use of fire arms, and we go nuts about the 40.000 of Mexico (as contrast: 9.100 in Europe 2010: The Cia World Factbook 2010). Go figure your 2nd amendment, again...

Cynic? You bet (no other choice left it seems)...!

Rattler
 
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The thing which I find striking about the situation is all of the ballyhoo about this POLITICAL figure in the news media. It would seem that the value of a government figure's life is far greater than that of say a prostitute raped and strangled with her panty house in a back alley - who might get mentioned once on paged 10. The liberals are going to HATE me for saying this, but there would have been just one or two injured in the crowd, and one dead person - the aggressor, if every person in that crowd had been armed and "dangerous". What is needed is common sense, and less spin with hype...

My condolences to the families of the victims. The case is an open and shut premeditated murder so far as I am concerned.

http://www.the-eggman.com/writings/death_stats.html
It is intuitively obvious from the statistics at the link above that motorized vehicles kill far more people than firearms. I HATE riding in motorized vehicles. I am in FEAR of my life whenever I must go out upon the road. I DEMAND that all motorized vehicles be banned IMMEDIATELY!

LOL does that sound familiar?

The battle of the target maps :
http://www.verumserum.com/?p=13647

Lonnie Courtney Clay
 
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claylc said:
The thing which I find striking about the situation is all of the ballyhoo about this POLITICAL figure in the news media. It would seem that the value of a government figure's life is far greater than that of say a prostitute raped and strangled with her panty house in a back alley - who might get mentioned once on paged 10. The liberals are going to HATE me for saying this, but there would have been just one or two injured in the crowd, and one dead person - the aggressor, if every person in that crowd had been armed and "dangerous". What is needed is common sense, and less spin with hype...

My condolences to the families of the victims. The case is an open and shut premeditated murder so far as I am concerned.

http://www.the-eggman.com/writings/death_stats.html
It is intuitively obvious from the statistics at the link above that motorized vehicles kill far more people than firearms. I HATE riding in motorized vehicles. I am in FEAR of my life whenever I must go out upon the road. I DEMAND that all motorized vehicles be banned IMMEDIATELY!

LOL does that sound familiar?

The battle of the target maps :
http://www.verumserum.com/?p=13647

Lonnie Courtney Clay
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So your contention is that say 500 bullets whizzing around a crowded car park is safer than none?

As for motor vehicles how about we just ban motor vehicles from driving through crowds at Safeways or better yet in the interests of "Freedom" how about we remove all licensing and education around vehicles and sell them for next to nothing at every nickel and dime store in the country after all using your logic the more there are out there the safer it will be.
 
You missed my point MontyB, the point is that if you let mindless, unreasoning fear guide you, then we might as well go back to a hunter-gatherer tribal mode.

I demand that all of the buildings in the world higher than one story be razed! Look how many people die from falling down stairs!

I demand that all manufactured chemicals be banned, look how many people die from toxic substances!

I demand that electricity be OUTLAWED, look how many people die from electrical shocks!

PPPFFFTTT! Back at you!

And no, I DON'T CARE that 99.9% of the world's population would die if my demands were met, because I am making my demands FOR YOUR OWN GOOD! After all my judgement of what is good for you should take precedence over your personal freedom to live your own life as you please!

Are you too dim to detect a bit of sarcasm in my statements?

Lonnie Courtney Clay
 
Make you a deal when people start taking headers off stairs and sticking their fingers in light sockets in groups then we can look at building and electricity codes of practice.

I don't care how many people want to kill themselves when pretending they are Rambo but surely you have to admit that the shear number of "multiple shooting" is something you should be concerned about and that perhaps it is the availability and lack of control on the persons buying firearms that is the problem.
 
Don't TREAD on ME! If you respect my personal freedom's then I will respect yours. If you seek to gain control of other people's lives "for their own good", then you had better expect to get a tongue lashing in return. If you don't like that response, THEN VOTE WITH YOUR FEET. Get the *ell out of Dodge! If you can't take the heat, then GET OUT of the kitchen!

PPfftttt back at you!

Lonnie Courtney Clay
 
rattler said:
LCC: I like your sarcasm! :) I guess Monty missed it. (?)

Rattler
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Thanks. I think that what it boils down to is a fundamental difference in attitude towards other people. To give a parable or analogy, think of the preferences of people towards their pets.

1) A dog looks at its owner and sees its master. A dog will hold its bowels until it pops rather than displease its master. A dog will whine and whine trying to understand how it has displeased you if you abuse it, often returning back home to an abusive owner even if it has sense enough to run away once.

2) A cat looks at its owner and sees its slave. A cat will cut loose if you ignore its command to be fed or let out. A cat will leave you if you abuse it.

3) A pig looks at its owner and sees its equal. A pig will treat you as it pleases, depending upon circumstances.

I would not run away a stray dog which came begging, but I would for sure try to find it a home where somebody likes a slave. MontyB, how many dogs do you own?

I have a pet cat, and treat it with respect...

Lonnie Courtney Clay
 
Well it finally happened, color me surprised.

For the past two years we have heard political movements (the tea party) and commentators on TV using increasing violent rhetoric or violent allegories against people they have a political disagreement with. These people have toed a very legal tight line between freedom of speech and calls to acts of violence (which is not protected speech).

Well America, the vitriolic speech (particularly on the far right, and this is not partisan you'd have have to be living in a cave the past few years to say that this stuff has been coming from anywhere BUT the right) has finally ended in an actual body-count. Nobody here can tell me that this was a surprise, this was simply a matter of time.

Maybe now we can ratchet down the tone before someone else on either side gets hurt. Otherwise we are heading into a scenario like Germany of the 1930s where roving political bands assaulted and murdered anyone who didn't subscribe to their views.

You cant stop some dumbass in a political party from shooting off his mouth, but you can get the FCC to punish media outlets that create violent atmospheres.

For example, Bill O'Reilly's "Tiller, the baby killer" sounded really cute, until someone decided to take the law into their own hands and murdered George Tiller because he didn't agree with Abortion.

OK. So, I'm the fascist, I'm the bad guy, I'm the problem. Not Tiller. No, he -- no, no, no. He's a good guy. Now, Tiller's pumping all kinds of money into obviously the attorney general race. He wants the guy that's gonna let him off the hook to win. Those of you listening in Kansas, you ought to know that. You know, I don't -- I'm not gonna tell you who to vote for. You guys know these guys better than I do, but I tell you what, anything Tiller wants, I'm voting the other way. And if I could get my hands on Tiller -- well, you know. Can't be vigilantes. Can't do that. It's just a figure of speech.

Classic example here: Basicially O'Reilly is promoting the idea of violence against Tiller, but adding escape clauses ("We Cant be Vigilantes...") at the end so that if anything does happen, O'Reilly doesn't get arrested for conspiracy to commit murder. O'Reilly is no fool, its obvious FOX NEWS lawyers briefed him extensively on where he could and could not go. Its wrong. If O'reilly needs to add escape clauses in his sermons then its obviously because he knows he going into a area he should not go into.

If media outlets don't have the moral decency not to say things that can obviously lead to violence, then perhaps a few criminal charges the next time an incident like this happens. Same goes for aspiring political candidates who walk a very fine line in their terminology.

Freedom of Speech does not allow ferment violence against others and that lined has become very blurred as of late.
 
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-aggression_principle

I have followed the non-agression principle since early childhood. I agree that inflammatory rhetoric needs to be curtailed. But do NOT claim that only the conservatives are guilty. Do you need a history lesson to recall "Squeaky Fromme?"

Come, let us reason together like civilized beings. Let me point out that I responded only AFTER the right to bear arms was attacked...

http://vocalminority.typepad.com/bl...ss-who-used-target-imagery-on-their-maps.html

Speaking of media blitzes, where were the lame-stream media when Nadal Hasan opened fire at Fort Hood? Making excuses for HIS behavior. So why don't they come to the aid of the current nut job? Could it be that their masters told them to grind the axe down on conservatives in general and the TEA party in particular? Hmmm?

http://gatewaypundit.rightnetwork.c...bama-cause-the-shootings-yesterday-in-tucson/

Lonnie Courtney Clay
 
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