My thoughts on the Tucson, AZ shooting

[Chief Bones]

Loony-tunes hit list .....

As long as there are wackos out there that allow others to think for them, we will continue to have douche-bags that think it is right and proper to pick up a gun and go hunting well-known people. It didn't help that the Congresswoman's name was on another wack-job's hit list.

I notice it didn't take very long for Sarah Palin to begin her Texas Two Step though. Within a very short time, she had removed her hit list from her website and was denying any responsibility for this shooting of a person her hit list was calling for the removal of.

As long as there are loony-tunes that follow Palin blindly, all of us are in danger of being collateral damage victims. Where do you place the blame for that??? Directly on Sarah Palin for her rhetoric of putting up a map that has bullseyes scattered over it with people's names listed ... her hit list called for their removal. This is just one more reason I believe Palin would be a very very poor choice as President of the United States.

 

[senojekips]

There are none so blind as those who refuse to see.

 

[claylc]

Well said Chief Bones!

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbUI6RhYy2Q"]YouTube - The Master and Shnozzola - Rare clip from 1932[/ame]

Idolizing politicians of ANY stripe, particularly those who are peddling snake oil to their adoring crowds is repugnant to me. Elect the unpopular, the raucous temporary job holders, not these career politicians...

And just who was demanding idolization of all his decrees hmmm?

Lonnie Courtney Clay

 

[mmarsh]

As long as there are wackos out there that allow others to think for them, we will continue to have douche-bags that think it is right and proper to pick up a gun and go hunting well-known people. It didn't help that the Congresswoman's name was on another wack-job's hit list.

I notice it didn't take very long for Sarah Palin to begin her Texas Two Step though. Within a very short time, she had removed her hit list from her website and was denying any responsibility for this shooting of a person her hit list was calling for the removal of.

As long as there are loony-tunes that follow Palin blindly, all of us are in danger of being collateral damage victims. Where do you place the blame for that??? Directly on Sarah Palin for her rhetoric of putting up a map that has bullseyes scattered over it with people's names listed ... her hit list called for their removal. This is just one more reason I believe Palin would be a very very poor choice as President of the United States.

Make an example I say...

The next time some like Palin, or the Goons, on FOX make statements that could be interpreted as promoting violence, have them arrested and put in handcuffs. Have the FCC shut the network down temporary (like one day).

In other words, put the fear of GOD into the motormouths that try to program the whack jobs and the organizations that promote them.

One example, is all it would take to get the rest in line.

The hate Obama thats OK, they hate liberals, democrats, socialists, gays, whatever..thats perfectly OK. But they do NOT have the right to put peoples life at risk or promote armed insurrection against the government.

 

[claylc]

Make an example I say...

The next time some like Palin, or the Goons, on FOX make statements that could be interpreted as promoting violence, have them arrested and put in handcuffs. Have the FCC shut the network down temporary (like one day).

In other words, put the fear of GOD into the motormouths that try to program the whack jobs and the organizations that promote them.

One example, is all it would take to get the rest in line.

The hate Obama thats OK, they hate liberals, democrats, socialists, gays, whatever..thats perfectly OK. But they do NOT have the right to put peoples life at risk or promote armed insurrection against the government.

And you try to deny the right to free speech now, while hating conservatives! Go ahead , make my day, not with a gun, with a keyboard. You are a tool of someone, or at least your own prejudices. And what gives you the crown of authority to go meddling in the internal affairs of the U.S.A. FOREIGNER???

Edit : I see that you already voted with your feet, claiming to be from NYC. Maybe you ought to make your national preference permanent?


Lonnie Courtney Clay

 

[mmarsh]

And you try to deny the right to free speech now, while hating conservatives! Go ahead , make my day, not with a gun, with a keyboard. You are a tool of someone, or at least your own prejudices. And what gives you the crown of authority to go meddling in the internal affairs of the U.S.A. FOREIGNER???

Edit : I see that you already voted with your feet, claiming to be from NYC. Maybe you ought to make your national preference permanent?

Lonnie Courtney Clay

Only an absolute moron thinks that advocating violence is covered by free speech. It isn't. Neither is advocating armed rebellion as of US Code Sec. 2385 under Advocating overthrow of Government.
Which is something you Teabaggers ought to remember. You question, my nationality? I question your sanity.

EDIT: And since you want to make this personal by questioning my nationality, Ill answer you:

First of all: the reason I care is because I am sick of people like you ruining this country with your radicalism..which is why I dont like many (not all) conservatives. Its mentally retarded people like you that just shot up a bunch of innocent people.

Second of all: As we say in NYC: Go F*** yourself.

 

[claylc]

Only an absolute moron thinks that advocating violence is covered by free speech. It isn't. Neither is advocating armed rebellion as of US Code Sec. 2385 under Advocating overthrow of Government.

Which is something you Teabaggers out to remember.

EDIT: And since you want to make this personal by questioning my nationality and patriotism let me give you a typical NYC reply:

"GO F*** YOURSELF ASSH*LE".

(And I don't care if you go whine to the Mods).

PPFFFTTT - the sound of a pig farting...

Lonnie Courtney Clay

 

[GarlicDude]

"** Obama: “They Bring a Knife…We Bring a Gun”
** Obama to His Followers: “Get in Their Faces!”
** Obama on ACORN Mobs: “I don’t want to quell anger. I think people are right to be angry! I’m angry!”
** Obama to His Mercenary Army: “Hit Back Twice As Hard”
** Obama on the private sector: “We talk to these folks… so I know whose ass to kick.“
** Obama to voters: Republican victory would mean “hand to hand combat”
** Obama to lib supporters: “It’s time to Fight for it.”
** Obama to Latino supporters: “Punish your enemies.”
** Obama to democrats: “I’m itching for a fight.”"

 

[claylc]

http://www.examiner.com/conservative-in-national/who-is-jared-lee-loughner

Do you still claim that pinko nut case was a TEA Partier?

Lonnie Courtney Clay

 

[senojekips]

I see that already the real problem has already been discretely pushed aside and the debate has degenerated into a political slanging match.

The Sherriff, or whoever he was that was interviewed on TV came closest when he said that this type of crime is a result of the Radicalisation of American politics. America is no longer the nice place it once was.

It seems that there is absolutely no middle ground in US politics, you are either one of us, or your opinions are completely without any worth whatsoever. The "knee jerk reaction" is now accepted as a logical way of solving problems, and people seem to be of the opinion that the further left or right you are the more your opinions are worth.

All of this has been exacerbated by groups like the NeoCons and Teabaggers (or whatever they call them), who use untrue, unreasonable and illogical arguments to panic the populace behind them. It's the principle Hitler used, to become a dictator.

 

[claylc]

I see that already the real problem has already been discretely pushed aside and the debate has degenerated into a political slanging match.

The Sherriff, or whoever he was that was interviewed on TV came closest when he said that this type of crime is a result of the Radicalisation of American politics. America is no longer the nice place it once was.

It seems that there is absolutely no middle ground in US politics, you are either one of us, or your opinions are completely without any worth whatsoever. The "knee jerk reaction" is now accepted as a logical way of solving problems, and people seem to be of the opinion that the further left or right you are the more your opinions are worth.

Those are words of wisdom worth remembering there. Rather than radicalize, what is needed is reasoned discourse to reach a consensus, as the Quakers practice...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_Society_of_Friends

Lonnie Courtney Clay

 

[mmarsh]

http://www.examiner.com/conservative-in-national/who-is-jared-lee-loughner

Do you still claim that pinko nut case was a TEA Partier?

Lonnie Courtney Clay

You made a uncalled for personal attack, not me. I merely responded with the same. I don't tolerate ANYONE questioning or disrespecting my nationality or patriotism so don't get all touchy by my response. You mess with the bull you get the horns. You don't have to agree with me, but I treat people EXACTLY the same way they treat me. If you are polite, then so am I. And the reverse is true. So remember that the next time you respond to me.

Now back to subject:

A liberal shooting at fellow Democrats??? Doesn't make much sense does it? And remember this is Arizona, liberals in Arizona is like Palm trees in the Arctic Circle. If hes really a liberal, I'm Elmer Fudd.

Most Liberals generally don't like guns and abhor violence. They also don't much like flag burners, and incidentally plenty of conservatives I know smoke pot too. I never said he was a teabagger, but judging on who he was, targeting, where this happened, and the often violent rhetoric of the teabaggers I am willing to make a pretty good bet that he was at least sympathetic. Even if I am totally wrong, its still a reasonable guess.

He's also linked to a White Power-Anti Government group called American Renaissance. Which is something else liberals don't like. Arizona has tons of hate groups in it, so its far more likely he was sympathetic to that then to any liberal groups.

As Bill Mahar once said. "not everyone in the tea party is a racist, but I am pretty sure every racist is in the Tea Party".

http://newsone.com/nation/newsonestaff2/jared-lougner-tied-to-hate-groups/


And I agree that radicalism of politics is the problem. But the fact remains that while there are radicals on BOTH sides, one side is far more violent/prone to violence/promotes violence than the other. I mean seriously can we really list liberal assaulting or murdering conservatives? None that I know of...Thats simply a fact.

Why is it more the right than the left. Open to discussion, but I suspect it has to do with the promotion of fear and hatred amongst the conservative media and certain politicians. Yes some liberals are guilty of this too, but its nowhere at the level of the O'Reilly, Becks, Palins, Hannitys, etc... of the world.

 

[claylc]

Oh, Did I hurt your feelings?

You made a personal attack, not me. I merely responded with the same. I don't tolerate ANYONE questioning or disrespecting my nationality or patriotism so don't get all pi**ed off by my response. You got what you deserved.

I treat people EXACTLY the same way they treat me. If you are polite, then so am I. And the reverse is true. So remember that the next time you respond to me.

Now back too subject:

A liberal shooting at fellow Democrats??? Doesn't make much sense does it? And remember this is Arizona, liberals in Arizona is like Palm trees in the Arctic Circle. If hes a liberal, I'm Elmer Fudd.

Most Liberals generally don't like guns and abhor violence. They also don't much like flag burners, and incidentally plenty of conservatives I know smoke pot too. I never said he was a tea-bagger, but judging on who he was, targeting, and the often violent rhetoric of the teabaggers I am willing to make a pretty good bet.

Furthermore He's also linked to a White Supremist group called American Renaissance. Which is something else liberals don't like.

http://newsone.com/nation/newsonestaff2/jared-lougner-tied-to-hate-groups/

I said pinko, not liberal pinko, there is a modicum of difference.

So far as being offended, I lack any need to have you define or project upon me emotions which I do not suffer. You were mildly amusing...

Have some history...

http://www.zombietime.com/zomblog/?p=621

PPPFFFTTT - sound of a pig farting.

Lonnie Courtney Clay

 

[senojekips]

Those are words of wisdom worth remembering there. Rather than radicalize, what is needed is reasoned discourse to reach a consensus, as the Quakers practice...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_Society_of_Friends

Lonnie Courtney Clay

One only has to stand back and look at the way the US has degenerated into a hotbed of political lunacy over the last 20 years in particular. As much as it displeases me to say this, the people of the US are reacting more and more in a manner that we would have once attributed to the loony radicals of the Middle east and also those within certain warlike Banana republics.

The really frightening thing is that both ends of the political spectrum are armed to the teeth, and savagely proud of their "Right" to do just that.

 

[mmarsh]

I said pinko, not liberal pinko, there is a modicum of difference.

So far as being offended, I lack any need to have you define or project upon me emotions which I do not suffer. You were mildly amusing...

Have some history...

http://www.zombietime.com/zomblog/?p=621

PPPFFFTTT - sound of a pig farting.

Lonnie Courtney Clay

Actually your article stated this:

Schoolmates of the alleged shooter describe Loughner as a loner, an ultra-liberal with a penchant for hard rock music, flag burning, and pot smoking.

And so what? A few deadbeat losers holding signs? Threatening the President (even a conservative one) is a Federal Crime. I would have had arrested them myself, and just the same to those Teabaggers who threaten Obama. Don't like a politician vote them out. Think they committed a crime? Seek an impeachment. These are legal. Putting a bullet into a politician you don't like is not only illegal, its undemocratic and unAmerican. As Senojekips stated, we are a downward slide toward totalitarian and its not Obama, but the increased radicalization of the political system.

As I said..There are limits to free speech, because if there isn't then some whacko is going to do PRECISELY the tragedy that happened today. But a few morons in the street isn't to what I refer. I am referring to those in the media and on the campaign trail, those who command brainless followers and who knowing implant violent thoughts into the simpletons brain.

I view like the Federal RICO laws. If your a drug kingpin and you tell/hint to your followers to go whack someone, you will get charged with the murder as well even if you didn't pull the trigger yourself. A politician or media personal/network that suggests violence should be held to the same account as the brainless twerp who shoots at a rival politician.

And yes, that goes for liberals too. But as I said, most of the violent rhetoric in the media and from politicians (and even the street) comes from the right-wing, even most mainstream republicans would tell you the something. Its not exactly a big secret, there have even been a few (failed) attempts at restraining the most outspoken of the molotov throwers like Michelle Bachman.

I am in favor of holding people to account for their words in actions. I think Bill O'Reilly should have been charged as an accessory to the George Tiller murder. I'd think the same if O'Reilly were a liberal.

You have no emotions and you were amused to what I wrote? Your either an android or you are full of crap. But Ill leave it there. Just remember what I told you so that you understand the next time you feel like making any personal commentary: I don't turn the other cheek.

 

[claylc]

Actually your article stated this:

Schoolmates of the alleged shooter describe Loughner as a loner, an ultra-liberal with a penchant for hard rock music, flag burning, and pot smoking.

And so what? A few deadbeat losers holding signs? Threatening the President (even a conservative one) is a Federal Crime. I would have had arrested them myself, and just the same to those Teabaggers who threaten Obama. Don't like a politician vote them out. Think they committed a crime? Seek an impeachment. These are legal. Putting a bullet into a politician you don't like is not only illegal, its undemocratic and unAmerican. As Senojekips stated, we are a downward slide toward totalitarian and its not Obama, but the increased radicalization of the political system.

As I said..There are limits to free speech, because if there isn't then some whacko is going to do PRECISELY the tragedy that happened today. But a few morons in the street isn't to what I refer. I am referring to those in the media and on the campaign trail, those who command brainless followers and who knowing implant violent thoughts into the simpletons brain.

I view like the Federal RICO laws. If your a drug kingpin and you tell/hint to your followers to go whack someone, you will get charged with the murder as well even if you didn't pull the trigger yourself. A politician or media personal/network that suggests violence should be held to the same account as the brainless twerp who shoots at a rival politician.

And yes, that goes for liberals too. But as I said, most of the violent rhetoric in the media and from politicians (and even the street) comes from the right-wing, even most mainstream republicans would tell you the something. Its not exactly a big secret, there have even been a few (failed) attempts at restraining the most outspoken of the molotov throwers like Michelle Bachman.

I am in favor of holding people to account for their words in actions. I think Bill O'Reilly should have been charged as an accessory to the George Tiller murder. I'd think the same if O'Reilly were a liberal.

You have no emotions and you were amused to what I wrote? Your either an android or you are full of crap. But Ill leave it there. Just remember what I told you so that you understand the next time you feel like making any personal commentary: I hit back.

Find one place in ANYTHING I have ever posted on the internet where I advocated violence. I have consistently and unambiguously counseled cooperation from the start. I despise ANYONE who seeks power over others.

Lonnie Courtney Clay

 

[mmarsh]

I didn't say you personally did.

What I said was that the political party you support does, (elements of it at the very least) and that such sentiments are often tolerated even encouraged by its leadership knowing that there is a real danger to peoples safety. The tea party leadership (yes I know what you are going to say, but there are figureheads) ought to know better. People like Palin, Angle, Bachmann and many others. I hold people like this responsible for the shooting as Jared Loughton.

As Chief Bones stated, Palin fearing to get drawn into the mess, quickly back peddled when this story broke. Sorry Sarah, thats far too little and much too late.

I don't like the two party system, and as you guessed conservative ideology (in its present form, not in its past form) doesn't strike any cords with me either. So I like the idea of 3rd parties in theory, but I can in no way join an organization as radical and has crazy as the tea party, not when it plays to the violent fantasies of unbalanced people. I have serious issues with the status quo, but not enough to go that far off the deep end.

 

[claylc]

I didn't say you personally did.

What I said was that the political party you support does, (elements of it at the very least) and that such sentiments are often tolerated even encouraged by its leadership knowing that there is a real danger. Frankly, People who ought to know better. People like Palin, Angle, Bachmann and many others.

I don't like the two party system, and as you guessed conservative ideology (in its present form, not in its past form) doesn't strike any cords with me either. So I like the idea of 3rd parties in theory, but I can in no way join an organization as radical and has crazy as the tea party, not when it plays to the violent fantasies of unbalanced people.

I forget the name of the novel, but a science fiction book which I once read had a scale for words which measured their emotional content and manipulative power. If a publication exceeded a threshold for manipulation, then the authors would be chastised. Perhaps you should read what you just posted and do a little introspective analysis. Before you decide to push someone else's emotional buttons, examine who has given you a knee-jerk programmed response. Check Wikipedia, I am confident that there are articles on imprinting and cultural conformity...

I march to the beat of a different drummer, myself.

Lonnie Courtney Clay

 

[mmarsh]

I forget the name of the novel, but a science fiction book which I once read had a scale for words which measured their emotional content and manipulative power. If a publication exceeded a threshold for manipulation, then the authors would be chastised. Perhaps you should read what you just posted and do a little introspective analysis. Before you decide to push someone else's emotional buttons, examine who has given you a knee-jerk programmed response. Check Wikipedia, I am confident that there are articles on imprinting and cultural conformity...

I march to the beat of a different drummer, myself.

Lonnie Courtney Clay

Would it surprise you if i told you I was once a registered Republican till about the early 1990's? That I supported/voted for George Bush (against Dukakis, not against Clinton) Rudy Giuliani, Michael Bloomberg (one of the best NYC mayors ever) and George Pataki.

Why I am center left independent now? It wasn't I who leave the GOP, the GOP left me. Like many liberals/moderates I was told either get on board with stuff I didn't believe in or get off the bus, I got off the bus. I owe no allegence to any political party except the party of me. I am capable of voting Democrat or Republican.

Therefore, I don't push other peoples buttons I only state my own opinion and will continue to do so. The only drum I follow is the one I am actually banging on myself.

 

[MontyB]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-aggression_principle

I have followed the non-agression principle since early childhood. I agree that inflammatory rhetoric needs to be curtailed. But do NOT claim that only the conservatives are guilty. Do you need a history lesson to recall "Squeaky Fromme?"

Come, let us reason together like civilized beings. Let me point out that I responded only AFTER the right to bear arms was attacked...

http://vocalminority.typepad.com/bl...ss-who-used-target-imagery-on-their-maps.html

Speaking of media blitzes, where were the lame-stream media when Nadal Hasan opened fire at Fort Hood? Making excuses for HIS behavior. So why don't they come to the aid of the current nut job? Could it be that their masters told them to grind the axe down on conservatives in general and the TEA party in particular? Hmmm?

http://gatewaypundit.rightnetwork.c...bama-cause-the-shootings-yesterday-in-tucson/

Lonnie Courtney Clay

No offense but the "Right to bear arms" should be attacked as an out dated and patently ludicrous bit of legislation.

There is a school of thought on this board in particular that if more people were armed there would be a safe and polite society and every time something like this happens they trot out the same tired mantra's "The right to bear arms shall not be infringed" and "Guns don't kill people, people kill people" but the reality is people do kill people and the most common thing linking these people are readily accessible guns and legislation written in a time when people actually needed guns to survive makes sense but being adhered to in a time when they don't is ludicrous.

It would be great to live in a world where we were all free to do as we pleased but sadly we live in a world that lacks the ability to handle those freedoms.