Mr. I won't wear a flag pin has a flag pin...

Mmarsh actually has a point.
America's doing so bad right now, they might as well hire a foreigner to do something to fix America if that's what it took. Though I doubt it. There are so many issues at this time that I don't know where anyone would begin. Actually, education, but no one will do that because it'll take over 10 years to see the results and no one wants to see their replacement take the credit for their work.

mmarsh said:
Personally I think the whole subject whether a person holds his hand over his heart or whether he wears a lapel pin is completely idiotic.

For Christ sakes, we got a terrible economy, two wars raging with a 3rd with Iran possibly on its way, we have a serious environmental crisis, there are 40 Million Americans without any healthcare at all, we have a serious energy crisis, a mortgage/banking meltdown, we have terrorists looking at ways to hurt us, and just about everybody in the entire world absolutely HATES us.

And all the right wants to discuss is lapel pins and hand gestures. I'd like to hear some answers to the above rather than talk about such trivial matters, because whether Obama wears a lapel pin or doesn't wear a lapel pin its not going to change anything important.

I would love to hear McCains ideas about the above, so far I have heard little and that I did hear struck me as a really bad idea (like the suspension of the gas tax).
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As I was driving through the Mid-West I couldn't help noticing the severe problems faced by the farmers who didn't have suffucient water supply to irrigate their farmland and crops, the same problem was evident among the cattle ranchers too.
As my cousin admittet, his wife made more income on the "guest-ranch" than he did on the cattle, even though he did have a steady water supply from an artificial lake.

In order to get health care and education system on it's feets the average US citizen have to accept higher tax rates, and also face the fact that certain goods will be more expensive than they're used to.

Being a city-boy converted to a rural dweller I spendt some time discussing the beef and crop prices with farmers and ranchers, and it was pretty obvious that they were republicans by heart, mainly due to the fear of imported goods from the third world at prices that would put them out of work for good.

I told them to hang in there, economical growth in China and India will increase the demand for all kind of goods, and prices will rise on world basis, that will make it possible for the agricultural industry to survive even in the most remote places.
We see it today, the oil price is still climbing, and it will continue to do so.
Beef from Argentina has to be transported to the US on keel, and that takes oil, so at one point or another the price will climb to a level where only the Chinese are willing to pay for it.
Let's just hope that the US agricultural industry is still on it's feets by then.

As for us over here...forestry is back in buisness, mainly due to higher export fees in Russia, and people have seen the need for us to be self sustained when it comes to food.
Norway have a pretty harsh tax level, we ususally claim that we're taxed to death, and personally I pay 36% income tax, we have 25% VAT on most goods except food where the VAT is 12,5%...
But we do have mostly free education and healt care, and not on a Cuba-level.

So allthough I sometimes feel that I'm being skinned alive by taxes I really have no reason to complaint.
 
the_13th_redneck said:
American farmers doing poorly?
That's a surprise.
It seems like farmers everywhere claim they're doing poorly.
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Ours aren't, record payouts and huge export orders. Next year's payout is looking like another record year for them.

In fact currently the agricultural sector is doing well throughout much of the world.
 
84RFK said:
As I was driving through the Mid-West I couldn't help noticing the severe problems faced by the farmers who didn't have suffucient water supply to irrigate their farmland and crops, the same problem was evident among the cattle ranchers too.
As my cousin admittet, his wife made more income on the "guest-ranch" than he did on the cattle, even though he did have a steady water supply from an artificial lake.

In order to get health care and education system on it's feets the average US citizen have to accept higher tax rates, and also face the fact that certain goods will be more expensive than they're used to.

Being a city-boy converted to a rural dweller I spendt some time discussing the beef and crop prices with farmers and ranchers, and it was pretty obvious that they were republicans by heart, mainly due to the fear of imported goods from the third world at prices that would put them out of work for good.

I told them to hang in there, economical growth in China and India will increase the demand for all kind of goods, and prices will rise on world basis, that will make it possible for the agricultural industry to survive even in the most remote places.
We see it today, the oil price is still climbing, and it will continue to do so.
Beef from Argentina has to be transported to the US on keel, and that takes oil, so at one point or another the price will climb to a level where only the Chinese are willing to pay for it.
Let's just hope that the US agricultural industry is still on it's feets by then.

As for us over here...forestry is back in buisness, mainly due to higher export fees in Russia, and people have seen the need for us to be self sustained when it comes to food.
Norway have a pretty harsh tax level, we ususally claim that we're taxed to death, and personally I pay 36% income tax, we have 25% VAT on most goods except food where the VAT is 12,5%...
But we do have mostly free education and healt care, and not on a Cuba-level.

So allthough I sometimes feel that I'm being skinned alive by taxes I really have no reason to complaint.
Click to expand...

As far as ranchers and farmers go in the US. The reason most are against taxes being raised on rural folks is this. Taxes get raised and then the state and fed dole it out mainly it seems to the bigger population bases. So rural roads, schools etc get the sh#t end of the stick. Our thought is why should we pay to revitalize the big cities when we get nothing out of it.
 
senojekips said:
It's called "The Lesser of two Evils". Where you get to choose who wastes your tax dollars, and gets rich in the process.
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In the 08 election there is no lesser of two evils.

Obama is a flip flop anti war one minute/listen to the Generals the next. McCain is a Bush supporter.

Obama will pull us out of Iraq and Afghanistan, only to save Israel at all cost ( war with Iran)
McCain will stay the current course.

both of them will raise taxes, and or create new ones.

I really feel disrespected by Obama because of his refusal to wear a flag pin on his lapel, and now I feel liek he's lieing to me by wearing it. kinda liek the guy that waves the war flag then spits on returning troops.

McCain will end up drafting my kids to fight this current war that I feel the United States has no backing of its people for and will not completely commit to fighting.

therefore in November I will cast my vote for Walter, and hope a real dummy can do a better job than the two fake dummies running now.
 
So it's either "the black plague" or "the Cholera" then?

Hmm, that statement got an unintended racist touch, what is this plague that wiped out half the population in Europe during the 14th. century called in English?

Anyway, that's what we call it when there's really no lesser of two evils.
 
WOLFEN

I am not a fan of McCain, so let me address your concerns about Obama.

In the 08 election there is no lesser of two evils.

I disagree but read on.

Obama is a flip flop anti war one minute/listen to the Generals the next. McCain is a Bush supporter.

The whole flip-flop issue is really ridiculous. All politicians flip-flop even the good ones. If people expect politicans to be saints they might as well just go to church. Obama flip floped on the War, McCain flip-flopped on taxes (he opposed both Bush taxcuts for Millionaires but now wants to make them permanent).


Obama will pull us out of Iraq and Afghanistan, only to save Israel at all cost ( war with Iran) McCain will stay the current course.

McCain would do the exact same thing. Isreal lobby controls BOTH parties. Likud is more favorable to the GOP, Labor to the Democrats. I never heard Obama say anything about war with Iran, but McCain certain has been pushing it, go to youtube to watch McCain's "Bomb Iran" singalong. Its Pretty frightening, if that isnt warmongering I am not sure what is...

both of them will raise taxes, and or create new ones.

Actually I think only Obama will. Obama is going to do what Clinton did in 1994, raise taxes on Millionaires. Specifically the 1% of Americans who make 1 Million a year in salary. He had repeated stated that we will cut taxes to the middle class. The Bush-Free-Lunch-for-the-rich-at-taxpayer-expense is over...

And here is the part nobody likes, we will have to raise taxes. We have a 9 Trillion Dollar Debt (half of which was borrowed by the Bush Administration alone). Sooner or later people are going to want their money back. So as I said, better to raise it for those who CAN afford it.

I really feel disrespected by Obama because of his refusal to wear a flag pin on his lapel, and now I feel liek he's lieing to me by wearing it. kinda liek the guy that waves the war flag then spits on returning troops.

First of all he never REFUSED to wear it, (thats GOP spin) he just didnt think it was totally necessary. Nor do I, its a decoration. I have a stars and stripes underpants does that make me any more patriotic than you? of course not. I dont wear it every day either. Furthermore, historically very few Presidents have actually worn it. It was the Bush Administration that made it a requirement. You know who made national symbols a mandatory part of government clothing attire? The Soviets and the Nazis.

McCain will end up drafting my kids to fight this current war that I feel the United States has no backing of its people for and will not completely commit to fighting.

Well to be fair, I dont like McCain and I wont vote for him, but he wont bring back the draft. Maybe he'd like to but its political suicide. He does plan to create PERMANENT military bases in Iraq which means the war in Iraq will go on and on and on. Those already in the service will continue have problems leaving it though...

therefore in November I will cast my vote for Walter, and hope a real dummy can do a better job than the two fake dummies running now.

Well I wont tell you who to vote for, but heres the thing. Obama might turn out to be a good president, at the very least if he screws up he wont screw up the same way as what we have now. The problem with McCain is as you said: a continuation of the Bush era. McCain really hasnt done much to distance himself from Bush. If I were the GOP nominee I would decree a Fatwa against anything related to Bush.
 
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84RFK said:
So it's either "the black plague" or "the Cholera" then?

Hmm, that statement got an unintended racist touch, what is this plague that wiped out half the population in Europe during the 14th. century called in English?
Click to expand...

You weren't far off target, it was called the Bubonic Plague or the Black Death, the "Black" part has nothing to do with race but more to do with symptoms as the disease also caused spots on the skin that were red at first and then turned black.

However in terms of the US presidential candidates I don't think it is quite as bad as it is made out to be, both candidates have positive traits for the job and given the nature of politics neither of them will change anything radically.
 
mmarsh said:
I never heard Obama say anything about war with Iran,
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To be fair he came pretty close to saying he would use military force against Iran at AIPAC.
 
No politician is a saint.
Every politician is a liar.
Every politician is an ass kisser first and whatever the heck he/she is/was second.
Every politician owes a lot of people a lot of favors.

How do I pick who to vote for? I look at their basic political stance (no communists, no hippies, no Nazis, fascists etc... basically NEVER vote for radicals).
I look at their track record. What has this person done. Is this person good at making things happen or is he all talk and no action? I want a person who can make things happen and has proven this.
Does the guy use his brain or his heart? Vote for the guy with a brain. The last thing you want in office is some bleeding heart b*stard who will waste your tax money on some bulls*it that doesn't matter to you.
Usually somewhere down the list is whether or not the guy is pro-military. South Korea's military needs more boosting. The country's got the technology and its got the money but only recently has there been a LOT of movement in attempting to truly modernize its force.

So there you have it.
Also, I don't vote for a single party... but right now there aren't many alternatives in Korea at this moment. One is more in tune with businesses and the others are from the 70's era democracy demonstration types. I'm sorry, but I only want people who understand the real world running this country. Businessmen it is.
 
Rabs said:
To be fair he came pretty close to saying he would use military force against Iran at AIPAC.
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...in the case of a Iranian attack on Israel.

Bush and McCain have said the same thing. What Obama said at AIPAC has been the status quo for the past 20 years.
 
MontyB said:
You weren't far off target, it was called the Bubonic Plague or the Black Death, the "Black" part has nothing to do with race but more to do with symptoms as the disease also caused spots on the skin that were red at first and then turned black.
Click to expand...


Ah, that's what it is!
Bubonic Plague is what we know as "Bylle Pest" and Black-Death is "Svartedøden" so it translates better than I thought.
The original quote goes: "Pest eller Kolera" wich would be "Plague or Cholera".

And it's my general opinion about politicians...
 
mmarsh said:
...in the case of a Iranian attack on Israel.

Bush and McCain have said the same thing. What Obama said at AIPAC has been the status quo for the past 20 years.
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Obama has spoken very powerfully in support of Israel in this respect. That he will not allow an attack from Iran; that he will do anything to prevent that; that there should be a 2 state solution; that Israel's security is sancrosanct with Jerusalem as its capital.
 
Del Boy said:
Obama has spoken very powerfully in support of Israel in this respect. That he will not allow an attack from Iran; that he will do anything to prevent that; that there should be a 2 state solution; that Israel's security is sancrosanct with Jerusalem as its capital.
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Sounds fine, at least in the ears of some..

Israel is allready under attack by Iran in the sense that the Hizbollah militia in Lebanon launches rather inaccurate rockets into the northern part of Israel on regular basis, and they're supported by Iran.
But the attack isn't FROM Iranian soil.

The 2 state solution is old news, it was part of the original plan in 1947 too, wich none of the parties involved respected by the way.
And Jerusalem as the capital of Israel....the undivided capital of Israel...
Well, you better read the proposals that lead to the plan in 1947, and maybe you'll see why it simply will not work out.

It's not possible before the IDF has effectively ridden the region of moslems. :(
 
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