Most decisive battle in WW2? - Page 6




View Poll Results :Most decisive battle in WW2?
Battle of Stalingrad 34 33.33%
Battle of Kursk (Operation Citadel) 15 14.71%
Battle of Moscow 10 9.80%
Battle of Leningrad 0 0%
Battle of El Alamein 3 2.94%
Operation Overlord (Battle of Normandy) 17 16.67%
Battle of Midway 11 10.78%
Other 12 11.76%
Voters: 102. You may not vote on this poll

 
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May 1st, 2005  
rkmac48
 
I think the obvious answer is... the Battle of Leyte Gulf, in October 1944.

No other battle was so singularly one-sided, had such a tactical weight to it in terms of victory (the battle virtually decimated the entire Japanese Navy) and struck such a decisive blow.



Read about the Battle of Leyte Gulf here:

http://www.journalofhistory.com/Batt...leyte_gulf.htm

You'll probably agree upon reading it. At least, I hope so... 8)
May 1st, 2005  
Doppleganger
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rkmac48
I think the obvious answer is... the Battle of Leyte Gulf, in October 1944.

No other battle was so singularly one-sided, had such a tactical weight to it in terms of victory (the battle virtually decimated the entire Japanese Navy) and struck such a decisive blow.



Read about the Battle of Leyte Gulf here:

http://www.journalofhistory.com/Batt...leyte_gulf.htm

You'll probably agree upon reading it. At least, I hope so... 8)
For the Pacific War perhaps. It did nothing to affect the outcome of the War in Europe, which arguably had more riding on it.
May 2nd, 2005  
rkmac48
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doppleganger
Quote:
Originally Posted by rkmac48
I think the obvious answer is... the Battle of Leyte Gulf, in October 1944.

No other battle was so singularly one-sided, had such a tactical weight to it in terms of victory (the battle virtually decimated the entire Japanese Navy) and struck such a decisive blow.



Read about the Battle of Leyte Gulf here:

http://www.journalofhistory.com/Batt...leyte_gulf.htm

You'll probably agree upon reading it. At least, I hope so... 8)
For the Pacific War perhaps. It did nothing to affect the outcome of the War in Europe, which arguably had more riding on it.

By October 1944, Germany was on the run. Italy had long capitulated, Russia was advancing, Normandy was secure... and so on. The only wild card Germany had left was the outbreak at The Bulge, and that, of course, was a failure.

Japan was on the run, too... but far from giving up. The dessruction of said fleet allowed U.S. ships to run amuck in the Pacific, leading to huge advances during the battles for Okinawa and Iwo Jima in 1945.

Were it not for Leyte Gulf and the American victory there... well, who knows. But you do have a point about the European theater aspect. I'm not entirely sure how it affected Germany and the Axis over there... other than morale, of course. That'd be an interesting study to do.
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May 2nd, 2005  
MadeInChina
 
perhaps not a battle, but an entire front

i think during the pacific war the most important front was the sino-japan front

my reasons being:

more jap soliders fought and died here than anywhere else

more japanese supplies, equipment and efforts went to china

this front tied down japanese crack units during the start of the war, other wise their advance wouldve been more capable

tied up future reserves during the late war period
May 2nd, 2005  
melkor the first
 

Topic: Leyte Gulf


The battle of Leyte Gulf may have been the largest naval action in terms of total ships involved but,and I hate to disagree with John Keegan who in his History of Warfare proposes that as one of hif 15 most decisive(ala Creasey) but in the Pacific war , it was merely the last gasp and death of the Japanese Navy,completeing the war of attrition that ruined Japan. In real terms, it was less decisive than the Battle of the Phillipine Sea. In terms of WW2, idway remains the decisive battle of the Pacific war and ,as I've argued, of the war. I hope no one thinks that I do not recognize the significance of the Russian front, but I still feel that Midway freed up the US to take action in Europe and helped with Allied aid to Russia. I note that after Stalingrad that German and Russian envoys met to discuss a ceasefire but the Germans would not agree to fall back to prewar boundaries. How's that for what might have beens?
May 2nd, 2005  
godofthunder9010
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadeInChina
perhaps not a battle, but an entire front

i think during the pacific war the most important front was the sino-japan front

my reasons being:

more jap soliders fought and died here than anywhere else

more japanese supplies, equipment and efforts went to china

this front tied down japanese crack units during the start of the war, other wise their advance wouldve been more capable

tied up future reserves during the late war period
On the Japanese front, I agree with this: The Chinese certainly paid the price in blood for it, but it was China that tied up massive amounts of Japan's resources and manpower, sucking away much that could have otherwise been used to fight the USA. Also, if China had been completely overrun, that would have given them a lot more to work with to take on the Brits, Americans, etc.

Still, the Chinese did not effect a decisive turning point. They simply stayed alive and didn't give up. The real turning points vs the Japanese were seen in victories against the Japanese Navy. If China had driven Japan out, then a better case could be made for China claiming to have turned the tide.
May 2nd, 2005  
c/Commander
 
 
Hmm...Pearl Harbor isn't in there. Wouldn't the battle that got the US involved be considered massively important?
May 2nd, 2005  
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by c/Commander
Hmm...Pearl Harbor isn't in there. Wouldn't the battle that got the US involved be considered massively important?
Oddly enough yes it probably should be there, I think it unfortunately is a casualty of Pacific war (for some reason we tend to over look the pacific war and concentrate on the european aspect of it).
May 2nd, 2005  
Charge 7
 
 
If you go back to page 1 you'll see that I brought up Pearl Harbor early in the discussion. It should be in the list alright.
May 2nd, 2005  
Arclight
 

Topic: Re: Leyte Gulf


Quote:
Originally Posted by melkor the first
The battle of Leyte Gulf may have been the largest naval action in terms of total ships involved but,and I hate to disagree with John Keegan who in his History of Warfare proposes that as one of hif 15 most decisive(ala Creasey) but in the Pacific war , it was merely the last gasp and death of the Japanese Navy,completeing the war of attrition that ruined Japan. In real terms, it was less decisive than the Battle of the Phillipine Sea. In terms of WW2, idway remains the decisive battle of the Pacific war and ,as I've argued, of the war. I hope no one thinks that I do not recognize the significance of the Russian front, but I still feel that Midway freed up the US to take action in Europe and helped with Allied aid to Russia. I note that after Stalingrad that German and Russian envoys met to discuss a ceasefire but the Germans would not agree to fall back to prewar boundaries. How's that for what might have beens?
I agree. Even if the Japanese plan had worked perfectly at Leyte Gulf, the destruction of the Seventh Fleet, they would still have to contend with the more formidable Third Fleet. And any losses taken by the American Fleet could be made up, while the Japanese had not the resources to do so.

Up until Midway, the Japanese held superiority in the Pacific. They were on the offensive and hoped by defeating the US Fleet, Japan would be uncontested on the open waters of the Pacific. After the US victory at Midway, things changed. Japan was no longer on the offensive - its carrier force destroyed. The US had evened the odds in the Pacific and really changed the war.

It was clear that the homeland would not be in immediate danger after the Japanese were defeated at Midway. And so, perhaps, more troops could be spared in the European theater. If the homeland were in danger, less troops would have traveled abroad to fight the Germans/Italians, who weren't immediately threatening the US.