Originally Posted by Del Boy

Careful there Ollie - or Kunikov might just come back and wipe the floor with you again!

The only difference is that I will lead German troops to final victory...stress on the word will. lol

FREE EAST PRUSSIA!

Please, that diatribe doesn't even deserve a response. Try providing some facts and sources.

Originally Posted by Kunikov

Please, that diatribe doesn't even deserve a response. Try providing some facts and sources.

Fact one: Germany has a manufacturing economy, Russia does not. In terms of machine tools, Germany is still number one. Russia, the last time I looked, was down in the nothing range. And, this counts for the WWII period as well.

Fact two: the Russians/Soviets produce/produced junk. Period. Which Russian products have you purchased lately...milk products do not count.

A question: Do you live on planet Earth or are you some kind of slavic visionary?

Please start a war...I have been waiting all my life for a war!

Another matter....please demonstrate to me how the Soviet economy could have survived without American help! Is that enough chew for you?

Originally Posted by Del Boy

Careful there Ollie - or Kunikov might just come back and wipe the floor with you again!

Look at that Ollie, the genie is out of the bottle. I am a fan of his, you know.

Now boys, keep it nice and clean, no biting or gouging, that way you both stay here with us, and we can enjoy the campaign.

Good to see you both back, alive and kicking.

Originally Posted by Ollie Garchy

Fact one: Germany has a manufacturing economy, Russia does not. In terms of machine tools, Germany is still number one. Russia, the last time I looked, was down in the nothing range. And, this counts for the WWII period as well.

Fact two: the Russians/Soviets produce/produced junk. Period. Which Russian products have you purchased lately...milk products do not count.

A question: Do you live on planet Earth or are you some kind of slavic visionary?

Please start a war...I have been waiting all my life for a war!

Those are not 'facts' but rather delusions, provide SOURCES to back up your so called 'facts.'

Originally Posted by Ollie Garchy

Another matter....please demonstrate to me how the Soviet economy could have survived without American help! Is that enough chew for you?

Lend Lease made up 4% of the Soviet war time economy, see "Soviet Planning in Peace and War, 1938-1945" by Mark Harrison. The end.

Originally Posted by Kunikov

Lend Lease made up 4% of the Soviet war time economy, see "Soviet Planning in Peace and War, 1938-1945" by Mark Harrison. The end.

God, are you for real? Quoting Mark Harrison is all nice and dandy, but do not just quote those sources that fit your bizarre worldview. You could also have mentioned other scholars like Overy, but...no...

4%? Jesus, what planet do you really live on? Hello!!! Do you even have the slightest clue about manufacturing. No...and that is rather obvious. Earth to Kunikov!

Your comment is so stupid, I do not even know where to begin. So, here:

(1) If we think about Soviet transportation, the matter becomes hardcore. The stupid Soviets, who pumped 80-90% of their economic resources into direct weapons, could no longer produce the dual-use materials necessary to run the economy. Even though the idiotic USSR needed trains, for example, they only produced 92 during the war -- the 1,981 American locomotives sort of helped. Likewise, the 14,000 to 18,000 American aircraft had a similar function. (I even included a slavic article for you)

(2) From my own research, the matter becomes even more intense. Without American copper exports (and this is just one of many examples in the area of primary metals), the Soviet production cycle would have collapsed. Jesus, and this will be hard for you to realize, the moronic Soviets could not even mine enough copper to run their war economy. No copper, no hardened steel or other products.

(3) The Americans pumped far more than $10 billion into the primitive Soviet economy. They did NOT send money or gold --except during the first year. Washington sent machine tools, locomotives, copper, etc. You are openly lying when you rely on morons like Harrison, but that is in your nature. The $10 billion figure alone represented several years of Soviet GNP.

(4) Even if Harrison would be correct, and I am not even going to check anything that stupid, the Americans and British still pumped over 40% of their economies into the war effort. So, please....do you honestly believe that this total did not count for anything. Jesus, please read some Overy or anything. Richard Overy was professor of modern history at King's College, London. I feel a certain affinity to KCL.

(5) Here are some numbers: (US to the USSR)

Aircraft 14,795
Tanks 7,056
Jeeps 51,503
Trucks 375,883
Motorcycles 35,170
Tractors 8,071
Guns 8,218
Machine guns 131,633
Explosives 345,735 tons
Building equipment valued $10,910,000
Railroad freight cars 11,155
Locomotives 1,981
Cargo ships 90
Submarine hunters 105
Torpedo boats 197
Ship engines 7,784
Food supplies 4,478,000 tons
Machines and equipment $1,078,965,000
Non-ferrous metals 802,000 tons
Petroleum products 2,670,000 tons
Chemicals 842,000 tons
Cotton 106,893,000 tons
Leather 49,860 tons
Tires 3,786,000
Army boots 15,417,001 pairs

You cannot compete against me, so your "end" is your own. I wanted a war, but not against simpletons like you. But, try to fight me. It will be funny.

http://www.aviation.ru/articles/land-lease.html#b8
http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/englis...ents/index.htm
Overy, Richard, Why the Allies Won.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lend-Lease

FREE EAST PRUSSIA!

Internet sites are not a valid source. You've made a fallacy in only providing the numbers for what the US sent via Lend Lease while ignoring all that England sent, you also ignored everything that the Soviet Union made during the War, which would put your numbers into a context. Sorry, I don't waste more time than that on ignorant fools. As for Overy, I'm reading "Why the Allies Won" right now, an author who claims Model headed the 9th Panzer Army at Kursk, that two Panzer Divisions at Kursk had around 1,000 tanks, or that the T-34 had a crew of two, is not one to be trusted with any detailed information.

Ollie, keen as you are to get at it, I hope you won't mind my suggesting that littering your case with personal attacks on your opponent and his country does not add anything to your cause. In fact I believe the opposite effect is achieved, in that Kunikov's dignity in the face of this becomes impressive.

Why is this approach necessary? It does not promote your verisimilitude.