More victories for terrorist rights in the UK

[A Can of Man]

Look what I found at Reuters. The Article is pretty new

The following blog post is from an independent writer and is not connected with Reuters News. The opinions and views expressed herein are those of the author and are not endorsed by Reuters.com.
Telegraph:

The Government's terror strategy was dealt a blow this morning when law lords ruled that the controversial control order regime must be watered down.

Britain's most senior judges ruled that the most draconian power - an 18-hour home curfew - was in breach of the human right to liberty. They held that a 12-hour curfew was acceptable.

The human rights group Liberty, which was a party in the crucial case, said it was a "significant blow" to the controversial measures.

Indefinite control orders, imposed on foreign terror suspects by the Home Secretary, are one of the Government's key anti-terror measures.
Control orders impose restrictions currently including curfews and bans on internet access and unauthorised visitors.
The orders were introduced two years ago after the House of Lords held that the previous system for dealing with foreign suspects - keeping them detained in prison until deportation - breached their human rights.
The cases considered by the law lords involved 10 terror suspects placed under orders, including at least two who are on the run.

In the High Court and the Court of Appeal they successfully argued that the measures violated their right to liberty and a fair trial.
The lords also held that control orders must be subject to "civil fair trial procedure", which has been breached in some cases by the "special advocate procedure". This procedure allows the Government to release sensitive information to terror suspects' security-screened lawyers, on the condition that this information is not passed on to the suspect.
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All in all, it was a good day for terrorist rights in the UK. It is hard for me to see a material difference between the two detentions for the suspects, but it does double the amount of time the government has to keep more people watching them making it much easier for them to slip the surveillance and do their mischief. It appears the law lords do not put public safety ahead of their terrorist rights agenda.

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Funny isn't it? Terrorists don't feel any gratitude or less tendency to carry out their attacks because of things like these. All they think is "idiots" and carry on.
This is the problem with the West. It's not the military that will lose the fights, it's not the police that will lose the fights. It's the public. It's the public's lack of realization that a very different set of rules apply when it comes to the world of some very hard and angry people.
Jailing? For the worst sort of criminals, a simple confinement is like a vacation. So what do you think about all this terrorist rights stuff?
And not to mention, because of political correctness, just because these Islamic terrorists are up to no good, EVERYONE has to suffer.
I just don't think the West's public can stomach the reality of this problem. They think everything is the same across the board. That the idea of the individual is universal, that freedom is understood everywhere...

 

[pixiedustboo]

All in all, it was a good day for terrorist rights in the UK.

It appears the law lords do not put public safety ahead of their terrorist rights agenda.

Yup. Everyone is so focused on having everyone have their rights they don't stop to look at what kind of person they are.

Funny isn't it? Terrorists don't feel any gratitude or less tendency to carry out their attacks because of things like these.
This is the problem with the West. It's not the military that will lose the fights, it's not the police that will lose the fights. It's the public. It's the public's lack of realization that a very different set of rules apply when it comes to the world of some very hard and angry people.
Jailing? For the worst sort of criminals, a simple confinement is like a vacation. So what do you think about all this terrorist rights stuff?
And not to mention, because of political correctness, just because these Islamic terrorists are up to no good, EVERYONE has to suffer.
I just don't think the West's public can stomach the reality of this problem. They think everything is the same across the board. That the idea of the individual is universal, that freedom is understood everywhere...

You hit the nail on the head, +1. I think these are all very valid points and it's horrible that the rest of society does not think the same way.

I think it's asinine the public is just letting people off - hardened criminals because we "as a society" feel bad for them. I say we play as dirty as they do and get the job taken care of. They would do whatever they could to hurt us...but [NewAgeHippieVoice]we just want to be nice and maybe they will feel bad for being such grumpy people and everything will be straightened out soon enough.[/NewAgeHippieVoice]

I have the same opinion for not just terrorists, but for child molesters, rapists, abusive criminals...lets quit letting them out on good behavior after 2 years. Lets stop giving them 2 and 3 and 4 and 5 chances. Lets take care of it the first time. I bet our crime rate would go way, way down. Kids could walk outside without their parents being terrified that they are going to be picked up 5 foot from the door by a child molester. Women might be able to walk the streets without being terrified that their ex-boyfriend who beat the living **** out of the and raped them just got out of jail today because he was being a good boy. (When I was in HS I did a report on rape crimes and over 70% of rapists REPEATED their crime and re-entered the system - and it was a very high percentage for 3 offenders also).

Let's make them SORRY.

I don't know, that's my cracked up vision of a better America. But what do I know, justice is taking it's last breath and only lives strong in a few hearts.

 

[A Can of Man]

No, you speak the truth.
When these criminals win like this, the losers are those who comply with the law. The losers are the rest of us. But among us, there are those do-gooders, those who believe that abandoning any kind of self defense somehow puts them at a higher plane of existence than the rest of us.
If a criminal complains there's no Net access while in prison, I don't see how that should ever raise an eyebrow.

 

[Del Boy]

Believe me, this is not the british public letting these monsters off. We are are fed up to the back teeth with these EU based law situations, which are driving us to distraction. The terrorists, the criminials are laughing at our postition. Our government is allowing us to become impotent on these issues, and that is why we are a magnet for every availablepolitical maniac prowling Europe. More later.

 

[Gator]

Yup. Everyone is so focused on having everyone have their rights they don't stop to look at what kind of person they are.

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety deserve neither Liberty nor Safety"

Quote attributed to Benjamin Franklin

 

[pixiedustboo]

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety deserve neither Liberty nor Safety"

Quote attributed to Benjamin Franklin

So it's okay to treat a terrorist, child molester and rapist like everyone else?

Nope, scum should be treated as such, and dealt with as such.

 

[Del Boy]

All we require in these matters is the right to deport foreign criminals; this includes those convicted of terrorism and murder, rapes etc. They will not let us do it.

 

[A Can of Man]

Right and this is happening because the government fears offending the public. There are enough people out there that believe even THESE people should have the same rights and privileges that non criminals enjoy. It's utter rubbish.
It is true that a people who dispose of freedom in search of security deserve neither.
But criminals deserve to be secured (away from us) and stripped of their freedom, so that we can be free and secure.

 

[pixiedustboo]

But criminals deserve to be secured (away from us) and stripped of their freedom, so that we can be free and secure.

I agree.

Well if we can't kill because the Public would be sad I say we make the Komodo Islands into a prison system.

They'll eventually kill each other or be eaten/bitten by the dragons. :smil:

 

[A Can of Man]

Whoah, what did Komodo do to deserve that??

 

[Del Boy]

This is not a matter of offending our general public, whose interests and opinions and security are being trampled by this terrible EU driven imposed bureacracy. The British public are losing real freedoms every day. It has been described as worse than cold war Eastern Europe. We are the most 1984 - spied upon nation in the world. We are simply a golden goose to be plucked by career driven nose in the trough politicians enjoying the greatest gravy train known to man. The EU. We now have a new class in Britain - the political class, the worst of all worlds, and their need is to remove all traces of British tradition and values. This is a country where people are scared to go into hospital for treatment for fear of dying from in house disease. We have more fatalities due to this than from road accidents. The tax war on the car means that we have fuel at more than $10 per gallon. Pensioners in poverty. Doctors and nurses seeking increased right to snuff out life of elderly and incapacitated without reference to families, so that they can empty beds. I will stop for breath at this point.

 

[pixiedustboo]

Whoah, what did Komodo do to deserve that??

They like rotten meat. That would be a treat for them.

This is a country where people are scared to go into hospital for treatment for fear of dying from in house disease. We have more fatalities due to this than from road accidents. The tax war on the car means that we have fuel at more than $10 per gallon. Pensioners in poverty. Doctors and nurses seeking increased right to snuff out life of elderly and incapacitated without reference to families, so that they can empty beds. I will stop for breath at this point.

Holy crap. Yeah...I remember seeing ONE gas station the whole time I was over there and it up in the two digits. It was crazy.

(What is an in house disease?)

 

[Del Boy]

(What is an in house disease?)/quote.


Good question, shameful answer. We have these disgusting circumstances that produce fatal complaints for our patients throughout our National Health service. They have new titles, such as MRSA and C Difficile, they are based on awful hygeine practice, and means that if you go into hospital with a damaged toe you might well die before you come out again. They do not seem able to rid the wards of it, although I believe other countries do not have the same difficulty.This situation has hit us like a plague, so that you enter hospital at the risk of death.

Sound like a 3rd world country? 10 years of this government has reduced us to this.

Clearly, we are an endangered species physically as well as politically.

We try to steer well clear of hospitals. I shortly have to run the gauntlett for an X-Ray. If I fall silent on the forum, you will understand.

 

[A Can of Man]

Holy Hell.
Bring lots of antiseptic wipes.
And maybe a gas mask.

 

[Missileer]

(What is an in house disease?)/quote.
We try to steer well clear of hospitals. I shortly have to run the gauntlett for an X-Ray. If I fall silent on the forum, you will understand.

I feel your pain Del Boy. I just had an Xray and MRI on my hip and everyone in the waiting rooms seemed sicker than me. I had an appointment with an osteopathic surgeon, more sick people, and he referred me to another bone cutter. I think I'm ready to just continue to use the crutches for the rest of my life than go through the roto-rooter operation on my femur.

 

[Del Boy]

In this country they tell us there is no cure for these super-bugs. I don't know how other countries deal with them.

Recently, a young soldier returned from danger in Iraq, I can't remember if he survived one or two terms. He went into general hospital with a fairly trivial injury, ( this government has closed our specialist military hospitals), caught one of the super-bugs and died!

Anyhow, some years ago they told me I need a new hip. I steered clear, and persevered with the Glucosomine medication. So far, so good.

I believe these sort of problems are all reflections on the will of the government. In all our affairs, the problem is that heads don't roll. We need a few politicians stuck up in the dock for various issues, and some of them even for treason. Example, yes sir, for destroying our society and therefore the country by swamping all our services, and our culture, with uncontrolled and uncounted immigration, and mostly from cultures very alien and hostile to ours.

 

[A Can of Man]

Man that is just nuts...
Anyways, the civilian population in this case is the civilian population of the EU, not just necessarily the UK itself. But they're forgetting this: rules that apply here, don't necessarily work over there.
Now the UK laws have to please some f**ktard in Brussels.

 

[Del Boy]

I guess a wake-up call will occurr sometime in the near future. I am sure the English will want to make their presence felt again, politically.

 

[Ted]

Man that is just nuts...
Anyways, the civilian population in this case is the civilian population of the EU, not just necessarily the UK itself. But they're forgetting this: rules that apply here, don't necessarily work over there.
Now the UK laws have to please some f**ktard in Brussels.

I reckon the Brits have almost no laws to please Brussels. They didn't ratify the Schengen agreement, the Euro and a number of other laws. Matters regarding home security will never be decided in Brussels, it is as simple as that.

Another word I miss in this conversation is "controversial". The laws were controversail which means the a large group of civilians do not agree with them. What is the worth of a democracy when the opinion of a large group is nullified or degraded to a "you don't know what you talk about". If you want to fight terrorism do so in a way the almost all can agree on. Since almost everybody is agaist terrorism, this should not be so hard, now should it?

 

[mmarsh]

Good to see you Ted, long time no hear...