More Americans abroad giving up citizenship for lower taxes

bulldogg

Milforum's Bouncer
PARIS: She is a former U.S. Marine, a native Californian and, now, a former American who prefers to remain discreet about abandoning her citizenship. After 10 years of warily considering options, she turned in her U.S. passport last month without ceremony, becoming an alien in the view of her homeland.

"It's a really hard thing to do," said the woman, a 16-year resident of Geneva who had tired of the cost and time of filing yearly U.S. tax returns on top of her Swiss taxes. "I just kept putting this off. But it's my kids and the estate tax. I don't care if I die with only one Swiss franc to my name, but the U.S. shouldn't get money I earned here when I die."

Historically, small numbers of Americans have turned in their passports every year for political and economic reasons, with the numbers reaching a high of about 2,000 during a Vietnam War-era boom in the 1970s.

But with new tax pressures facing American expatriates due to legislation enacted in Washington this year, some international tax lawyers say they detect rising demand from citizens to renounce ties with the United States — the only developed country that taxes it citizens while they are overseas. Americans abroad are also taxed in foreign countries where they reside.

"The administrative costs of being an American and living outside the U.S. have gone up dramatically," said Marnin Michaels, a tax lawyer with Baker & McKenzie in Zurich....

It continues at
http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/12/17/news/expat.php

This sucks. Double jeapordy on taxation. This is not the way to solve the fiscal irresponsibility of Washington. MMarsh, you still going to carry both passports?
 
Well, if they want to turn in their citizenship. By all means do it. When they want to come back screw them. Let them live in their own mess that they have created.
 
Actually, I had the opportunity to go and work in a European country recently. But had to think twice, I was told that I would be paying double taxes, and would have had to buy extra health care insurance. I guess if you are not a citizen, you don’t qualify, even if you are paying their taxes…

My wife and I (both born in Europe and now American citizens) have been discussing the option of moving back over there. The main reason is that we are not too happy here, because of the income vs. standard of living issue. Our friends and relatives in Europe make less money and seem to have more of everything, including vacations!! My wife and I have not had the time to go on a vacation since the past four years! Its like, if you want to earn the big bucks you have to sell your soal to the devil (work 24/7). And we are not the only ones who are living like this. It really makes me sick. Someone please tell me why livening in the United States is better then any European country?
 
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I can't. Its an American thing.

He's somewhat right. I was born in Communist Cuba and I moved to the USA at an early age and I thank God everyday that I live in the United States of America.

My days in Cuba were days of hunger and fear. But in America I live a life of a god. I have my own house, over 100 firearms, pickup turck and four door car, a wonderful job, an education, a wonderful woman in my life, and last but not least. Freedom.

It is an American Thing and I love it.
 
He's somewhat right. I was born in Communist Cuba and I moved to the USA at an early age and I thank God everyday that I live in the United States of America.

My days in Cuba were days of hunger and fear. But in America I live a life of a god. I have my own house, over 100 firearms, pickup turck and four door car, a wonderful job, an education, a wonderful woman in my life, and last but not least. Freedom.

It is an American Thing and I love it.

Yes, in your case I have to agree with you, but...

Cuba is not Europe.

1. All of my relatives own at least one huge house with land.
2. At least one sports car.
3. Everyone gets at least 4 weeks paid vacation per year, most get 5+
4. Imagine going on a vacation to the south of France or one of the islands off Greece or anywhere on the Adriatic.
5. Never have to work more then 35 to 40 hours per week. I currently put in up to 80 hours per week, with NO OVER-TIME!!! BTW I do have a very good college degree.
6. In most European countries people take a 2 hour break in the middle of the day. You can do anything like sleep, shop for fresh foods or go home and have sex with your wife!
7. The Euro is WAY stronger then our dollar.
http://www.military-quotes.com/forum/chi-coms-dump-one-trillion-t30228.html

I can go on, but you get the idea.

Note; I forgot to mention FREE education. I had to pay over 75k for mine!
 
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He's somewhat right. I was born in Communist Cuba and I moved to the USA at an early age and I thank God everyday that I live in the United States of America.

My days in Cuba were days of hunger and fear. But in America I live a life of a god. I have my own house, over 100 firearms, pickup turck and four door car, a wonderful job, an education, a wonderful woman in my life, and last but not least. Freedom.

It is an American Thing and I love it.


Yes those 100 firearms would come in handy. God bless America!
 
This is frustrating for them. Even more frustrating, I don't think military personnel should have to pay taxes. They are paying more than tax payers pay annually. They give their lives so that folks are free enough to even be taxed. Military personnel paying taxes is double taxation (at least) the way I see it.
 
I love this country but there's no way I'm paying the bills if I'm not getting the services the taxes fund. I don't know who would, except maybe a rich person. Then again they seem to be the best at dodging taxes.

Also, I agree with GI_JOEJK. If you don't go to college or a good trade school you're a serf here. Of course they'll convince you you have freedom when in fact you are a subject to your boss.
 
Actually, I had the opportunity to go and work in a European country recently. But had to think twice, I was told that I would be paying double taxes, and would have had to buy extra health care insurance. I guess if you are not a citizen, you don’t qualify, even if you are paying their taxes…

My wife and I (both born in Europe and now American citizens) have been discussing the option of moving back over there. The main reason is that we are not too happy here, because of the income vs. standard of living issue. Our friends and relatives in Europe make less money and seem to have more of everything, including vacations!! My wife and I have not had the time to go on a vacation since the past four years! Its like, if you want to earn the big bucks you have to sell your soal to the devil (work 24/7). And we are not the only ones who are living like this. It really makes me sick. Someone please tell me why livening in the United States is better then any European country?
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I am an American living in France the past 10 years. So let me square you off alittle. First of all what I say here refers to France and the situation might be different elsewhere. Ill take your issue point by point

Standard of Living vs. Income.

Your diagnosis is exactly correct. You do make more money in the US, but the standard of living is higher in Europe. When you are employed in France in ANY JOB (dishwasher to corporate lawyer) you are automatically entitled to 5 weeks paid vacation, 100% Healthcare, insurance paid by your employer, unemployment benefits that last in corrlation to how long you worked, semi-paid lunch (for non cadre workers, which is most) a retirement plan. You also have greater protections from your employer, employers must cite a valid and documented cause for termination. Its not like the USA where the boss is a mini dictator who can terrorize the staff with immediate termination on the spot.

For most people the European system is better, HOWEVER there is an exception. If you have a senior position or are making a very good salary then its better to work in the USA. 6 figure salaries are rare in Europe so if you are making one you could be making double or triple in the USA. The higher salary overides the loss of benefits.

Taxation

Tax is much higher in Europe and there are more of them. I have to file tax returns in both France and the USA. When I do my US taxes I notice about 20-30 percent difference.

However Major liabilty makes a very astute point, its not the Americans pay high taxes (because they don't) the problem is that get absolutely nothing for those taxes. The social services offered by the US government are quasi-nil. Taxes in America are wasted, mismanaged, and frankly there is alot of corruption too, such as Pork, the enormous corporate handouts.

Is Living in the USA better than Europe?

NO. Thats not to say that Europe doesnt have its problems as well but economically speaking you'll be better off in Europe.

A Disclaimer:

Now before the rest of you get your balls in a knot and accuse me of being anti-American (as usually is the case when this subject arrives), I am not slamming the USA. But the fact remains that life is easier in Europe and you also have greater civil liberties now in places like the Netherlands and Sweden. Thats a fact, you can pretend its not the case (which is what the public has been doing the past 20 years) or you can get off your arse and complain about it. Just remember that the politicans in DC prefer compliant automotons, than a demanding public. Look at the healthcare issue, the only reason we hear about politicans talking about the healthcare issue is that after 30 years of being screwed by HMOs somebody decided it was time to say something. Otherwise we'd be right back to the daily distractions of God, Gays and Guns that have no real significance in most people daily life.

Its time to face reality, the USA is not the same place it once was, and that capitialism is so out of control that our famous "American Dream" doesnt really exsist anymore. As Major Liabilty said the only way to get ahead is with education (a Masters Degree will soon be required as well) but at $75-100K for a degree not too many people are going to be getting it. If only the wealthiest can afford education, that is trappings of an elitist society.

The fact is that in America you can still work very hard, play by all the rules, say your prayers, take your vitamins, and get absolutely nowhere for your entire life. And that's a damn shame.

Personally though, I'd would never give up my US citizenship. Home is Home.
 
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Forgive me, but I've got to say it.

As a person who spent 40+ years sailing around the world I would have to say that Americans per se, are probably only second to the Japanese in regard to their insular views of their own country and the world about them.

The USA may be many things, but believe me, there are a lot of people in the world who would not dream of wanting to live there. I don't know whether your attitude is the result of having to constantly defend your borders against persons seeking a better life from third world countries or what, but as a place to live, it would certainly come a good way down my list of preferred places.

The world is full of great places to live, they may not be economic marvels, or industrial powerhouses but they provide a lifestyle not even dreamed about by many persons in the US.

There's only one thing I miss from the USA,... the particular baked beans recipe served by Kentucky Fried Chicken outlets, they are just not on the menu here. Hmmmm,.... beeenzz, I just love 'em!
 
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Forgive me, but I've got to say it.

As a person who spent 40+ years sailing around the world I would have to say that Americans per se, are probably only second to the Japanese in regard to their insular views of their own country and the world about them.

The USA may be many things, but believe me, there are a lot of people in the world who would not dream of wanting to live there. I don't know whether your attitude is the result of having to constantly defend your borders against persons seeking a better life from third world countries or what, but as a place to live, it would certainly come a good way down my list of preferred places.

The world is full of great places to live, they may not be economic marvels, or industrial powerhouses but they provide a lifestyle not even dreamed about by many persons in the US.
It does give you a certain morale boost when people try to sneak in here to collect your garbage for a living.

Is Living in the USA better than Europe?

NO. Thats not to say that Europe doesnt have its problems as well but economically speaking you'll be better off in Europe.

A Disclaimer:

Now before the rest of you get your balls in a knot and accuse me of being anti-American (as usually is the case when this subject arrives), I am not slamming this US. But the fact remains that life is easier in Europe and you also have greater civil liberties now in places like the Netherlands and Sweden. Thats a fact, you can pretend its not the case (which is what the public has been doing the past 20 years) or you can get off your arse and complain about it. Just remember that the politicans in DC prefer compliant automotons, than a demanding public. Look at the healthcare issue, the only reason we hear about politicans talking about the healthcare issue is that after 30 years of being screwed by HMOs somebody decided it was time to say something. Otherwise we'd be right back to the daily distractions of God, Gays and Guns that have no real significance in most people daily life.

Its time to face reality, the USA is not the same place it once was, and that capitialism is so out of control that our famous "American Dream" doesnt really exsist anymore. As Major Liabilty said the only way to get ahead is with education (a Masters Degree will soon be required as well) but at $75-100K for a degree not too many people are going to be getting it. If only the wealthiest can afford education, that is trappings of an elitist society.

The fact is that in America you can still work very hard, play by all the rules, say your prayers, take your vitamins, and get absolutely nowhere for your entire life. And that's a damn shame.
Work my :cens: off and live in poverty. I come from a family of coal miners, I know the feeling.

I can't afford to live the American Dream anymore. I'll be lucky to afford college, on a lawyer's salary. The capitalist system needs regulation. The rich are getting richer, while everyone else is getting poorer.

I love this country but there's no way I'm paying the bills if I'm not getting the services the taxes fund. I don't know who would, except maybe a rich person. Then again they seem to be the best at dodging taxes.

Also, I agree with GI_JOEJK. If you don't go to college or a good trade school you're a serf here. Of course they'll convince you you have freedom when in fact you are a subject to your boss.
Of course you're free! This is AMERICA! Of course, you have to pay for your healthcare, your insurance for said healthcare, your education, the school you get said education in (my school is a school of 1200 students built for 800, because our taxpayers don't want to raise the taxes), but you can buy guns!

Yes those 100 firearms would come in handy. God bless America!
Amen to that! For once I don't have to press "report" to a post from Lord Londonderry... of course he's already banned...

But what are your freedoms in Europe?
Let's start with the freedom of speech, which appears to be losing ground here in the States. In Europe, you can be a musician and say that you are against a war without being banned from radio, losing your record contract, and being lambasted by the press for being "Un American" (i.e. The Dixie Chicks).

Disclaimer of my own:
I don't give a :cens: if you think I'm un-American for pointing out the obvious. Don't give me the "If you don't love it, leave it," routine either. I love America. I see this as a call to make America a more efficient country to match back up to where it once was, where you don't have to have $100,000 in the bank to get a decent education, where you don't have to pay $100,000 for poor healthcare insurance, and where you don't have to watch what you say, or run the risk of being called a Commie Terrorst Rat and getting a visit from your local FBI agent.
 
Forgive me, but I've got to say it.

As a person who spent 40+ years sailing around the world I would have to say that Americans per se, are probably only second to the Japanese in regard to their insular views of their own country and the world about them.

The USA may be many things, but believe me, there are a lot of people in the world who would not dream of wanting to live there. I don't know whether your attitude is the result of having to constantly defend your borders against persons seeking a better life from third world countries or what, but as a place to live, it would certainly come a good way down my list of preferred places.

The world is full of great places to live, they may not be economic marvels, or industrial powerhouses but they provide a lifestyle not even dreamed about by many persons in the US.

There's only one thing I miss from the USA,... the particular baked beans recipe served by Kentucky Fried Chicken outlets, they are just not on the menu here. Hmmmm,.... beeenzz, I just love 'em!
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That's a very accurate criticism, I too think we have become very insular and frankly arrogant and lazy in respect to our world outlook.

Its bad enough that Americans are largely ignorant to the world around them (a study by National Geographic in 2002 showed that only 17% of Americans could find Afghanistan on a map). But worse we actually have the audacity to lecture the world about how things should work, and with disastrous results too (see Iraq). Is it any wonder why the world thinks so little of us?

Is it a nice place to live? Yes. Is there better? Yes, (that's just a fact people, get over it). Can we improve our society? Only if we stop pretending we are God's Gift and make some necessary changes, like starting to take better care of ordinary citizens and not just the millionaire class.
 
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Yep. I've looked at the situation and I've decided to stay here haven't I? And that's even if Korean is my second language. Life is better here most of the time. When I walk into a government office to get a form I get it quickly (within a few minutes for most documents) without the damned attitude. I can walk the streets at night with my wife without fear of being mugged.
For me, if I want to truly succeed at the highest level, the US is where to go... if it weren't for all those insane labor laws. So since I'm screwed here and there, I'd rather stay here where life is actually good.
Yeah, Korea's got a LOT of issues too but life is good here. Believe it or not.
 
I believe in the American Dream, I stand by the founding ideals of this nation, and it's the only place I could ever call home, but these days I'm losing faith. The executive branch is overstepping its bounds by a good margin, it is now legal to kidnap an American citizen and hold him indefinitely without telling anyone what happened, it is now legal for federal agents to search your home when you're not there without a warrant, and you can get put on a terrorism watch list because of the books you get out of the library. In addition, if things keep going the way they are we're going to be a country where the only classes are those who have everything and those who have nothing.

Still, I consider myself pretty damn lucky to have been born here, and every country has its problems.
 
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The Patriot Act. The Freedom Tower. God Bless America during the 7th inning stretch.

Could this administration be any more nauseatingly Nationalistic?
 
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