moral/political discussion - Page 9




 
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moral/political discussion
 
May 1st, 2007  
LCPLSMITH
 
 
moral/political discussion
mmarsu, I understand where you are coming from. I know that there are certain situations where it may seem, in my opinion, like that is the right thing to do, but regardless of the consequences of keeping that individual alive, I still believe its wrong to end that life. I believe, at least in the United States, that that person has certain rights under the Constitution. Not even that individual can give up his or her right to live. But, once again, this is all just my personal opinion, and I can see your point mmarsu.
May 2nd, 2007  
Marinerhodes
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grimlin
i was wondering what the take here was on the legal status of suicide.
as most of you know, suicide is against the law in the US, this has always puzzeled me, if someone wants to make the choice, regardless of how it affects others, it is that persons choice, is it not?
all views welcome, just let me know your thoughts on this subject




*i am not in any way suicidal, i just think it would make for an interesting discussion

Are you speaking of "assisted" suicide (Like Dr Kevorkian) or the more common definition of suicide (taking your own life with no assistance)? One is generally illegal (assisted) while the other is not.

This should answer your question: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_views_of_suicide

Either way, assisted or self-inflicted, it is considered the taking of one's own life.

As for individual morals and ethics. We each have our own thoughts and experiences. It is unlikely that anyone can change our view by using this medium. So let us leave it at that.

Quote:
I don't agree with that at all.

Suicide (Euthanasia) is perfectly acceptable to me as long as the person A) wishes it B) the condition is both untreatable and/or Terminal or if the patient suffers without end.
MMarsh:

Euthanasia is a glamorous term for assisted suicide in my opinion, it is also a term in general use referring to killing unwanted or terminally injured animals. Call a horse black if it is black. Sugar coating a sensitive subject like this is asinine.
May 2nd, 2007  
5.56X45mm
 
 
Suicide is my opinion is a permanent answer to a temporay problem.

I am against it, but than again I also think that some folks are alive only because it's against the law to kill them (Fidel Castro, Hugo Chavez, etc...)

I don't agree with suicide. It's just something that I don't see as a natural act in nature. It also goes against God.
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moral/political discussion
May 2nd, 2007  
Donkey
 
 
Suicide like abortion should not be illegal, but they should not be endorsed as the best solution; unless they are.

Using suicide for depression versus a person that is no longer enjoying life, has lived a long life, and is only going to die a painful death sooner or later should be allowed to end it painlessly.

Eskimos have done this with elders, Indians, early man even. Some of whom came before a "bible".

Again I stress that it is never the answer for someone feeling depressed and we should encourage people that have feelings of depression to talk about it and not feel sick or weak because of it.
May 2nd, 2007  
mmarsh
 
 
MarinerRhodes and Lt/Henderson

Euthanasia, mercy killing, assisted suicide, its all the same. Although I think the term can refer to humans as well.

Its "assisted" suicide in the United States, but not in other countries. In Sweden the patient (if he is able to) can inject himself with the drugs provided by the doctor. I saw a report on TV where a guy threw a final 'goodbye' party for his closest friends and family, then went upstairs alone to kill himself using the prescription his doctor had delivered to him.

But we are splitting hairs, I am talking about people taking their own life (assisted or otherwise) in order to alleviate suffering, its still suicide one way or the other. And I absolutely support people right to it.

Lcplsmith

You're absolutly entitled to your opinion, but my beliefs come from personal experience.

With my own eyes, I have watched a family members lie in a hospital bed, dying in agony. For a cousin of mine with an inoperable cancer that agony took 3 years to end. And worse, the treatments were more painful than the disease itself. When he finally passed away I felt relieved.

The sister of a close friend of mine was born with Parkinsons disease, mentally retarded, as well as several others diseases, including that disease that stops growth. Like the actors Emmanuel Lewis or Gary Coleman, at 13 she looked like a 4 year old.

But the worst part was watching her body shut down piece by piece. First she became deaf, then she became blind, then paralyzed from the waist down then later the neck down. And she would scream in pain for hours. It was truly horrible watching someone so young suffer so much. She finally died at age 14.

That's not life. I think her being alive was a monumental injustice. Although she was too young to make that decision, I certainly don't plan on going out that way. I thought her death was a blessing.

People shouldn't have to been kept alive (and them and their families in agony) if they don't wish it because it offends the religious or moral beliefs of strangers. Let them be offended. If someone wants to argue religion my answer is: "If God is truly kind and merciful, then he is also understanding of such matters".

If we are allowed to take other peoples rights away, then as individuals we are certainly entitled to do it ourselves provided we are in sound mind (depression is a mental disease).
May 2nd, 2007  
Grimlin
 
 
all good points, i personaly have bipolar disorder...but its funny how little most ppl actually know about bipolar disorder...they act like i'm gonna just flip out on them any second when they find out...and i was origany talking about depression suicide with this post...i just think its odd that its illegal to attempt suicide, i mean, the way i see it, its that persons choice, whether or not they get help or just go for it, i'm not saying i support it, but if its their escape, grant them that right
May 3rd, 2007  
Gator
 
 
Is a successful suicide against US Law?

I can find Murder listed in United States Code....
Quote:

From the U.S. Code Online via GPO Access
[wais.access.gpo.gov]
[Laws in effect as of January 20, 2004]
[Document not affected by Public Laws enacted between
January 20, 2004 and December 23, 2004]
[CITE: 18USC1111]


TITLE 18--CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE

PART I--CRIMES

CHAPTER 51--HOMICIDE

Sec. 1111. Murder

(a) Murder is the unlawful killing of a human being with malice
aforethought. Every murder perpetrated by poison, lying in wait, or any
other kind of willful, deliberate, malicious, and premeditated killing;
or committed in the perpetration of, or attempt to perpetrate, any
arson, escape, murder, kidnapping, treason, espionage, sabotage,
aggravated sexual abuse or sexual abuse, child abuse, burglary, or
robbery; or perpetrated as part of a pattern or practice of assault or
torture against a child or children; or perpetrated from a premeditated
design unlawfully and maliciously to effect the death of any human being
other than him who is killed, is murder in the first degree.
Any other murder is murder in the second degree.
(b) Within the special maritime and territorial jurisdiction of the
United States,
Whoever is guilty of murder in the first degree shall be punished by
death or by imprisonment for life;
Whoever is guilty of murder in the second degree, shall be
imprisoned for any term of years or for life.
(c) For purposes of this section--
(1) the term ``assault'' has the same meaning as given that term
in section 113;
(2) the term ``child'' means a person who has not attained the
age of 18 years and is--
(A) under the perpetrator's care or control; or
(B) at least six years younger than the perpetrator;

(3) the term ``child abuse'' means intentionally or knowingly
causing death or serious bodily injury to a child;
(4) the term ``pattern or practice of assault or torture'' means
assault or torture engaged in on at least two occasions;
(5) the term ``serious bodily injury'' has the meaning set forth
in section 1365; and
(6) the term ``torture'' means conduct, whether or not committed
under the color of law, that otherwise satisfies the definition set
forth in section 2340(1).
and the Assisted Suicide Funding Restriction Act

http://www.access.gpo.gov/uscode/tit...apter138_.html
May 3rd, 2007  
LCPLSMITH
 
 
I'm sorry mmarsh for having to go through that, I know that is hard. I, sadly, have also dealt with situations that helped me form my opinion. When I was a young hard charger going through the United States Marine Corps Infantry Training Battalion, I was walking around during firewatch when a Marine got up from his rack and proceded into the head. I followed him and asked him if he was ok, and he said he was fine, and for me and the other Marine to leave him alone. So we went for one more round around the squad bay, and I returned to check on the Marine in the head. I pushed open the door and I felt something push the door back so I assumed it was the Marine pushing the door shut because he wanted to be left alone, so once again, we made another round around the squad bay. We came back around to check on him, and by this point, I forced the door open and the young Marine, no older than 18 or 19 years of age, had wrapped his bootlace around his necka nd pulled down on the bottem of the stall door in order to end his life. He succeeded, and myself and the other Marine were blamed for his ignorance. I was told that, despite my efforts and constant questioning of the Marine who killed himself, I was at fault for the fact that some family had just lost their child. I went into a nasty depression, and even contemplated suicide my self I felt so bad. Once I regained my health, I realized that I was not at fault, but that the blame remained on the Marine who commited suicide. The stress and pain he put on him self was multiplied 10 fold on those who knew him, his mother, father, brothers and sisters. Even for me, who knew him only through training, I was terribly disturbed and upset at his actions. Ever since than, I decided that suicide is absolutely unacceptable and should not be tolerated nor justified. People need to understand that it is a selfish act, in my opinion, due to what it does on those around that individual.
May 3rd, 2007  
mmarsh
 
 
LCPLSMITH

You have my sympathy. Frankly I find it unbelievable that the Marine Corps would blame you and your fellow Marine for the incident. Sounds like that Marine was determined to end his life by any means. If it wasn't his boot lace he would have found another way, at a Marine Base filled with weapons and ammunition I cannot image it would be very hard.

I Hope you didn't take too severe a rip for that.

But as I was saying above, the decision to end ones life must be in sound mind. Depression is not being in sound mental state, its an illness. Also most people who contemplate or commit suicide don't really wish to die per se, they just want the pain to end. My feeling is if the pain is physical and their are no medical alternatives to alleviate the suffering the patient should be allowed to terminate his life.

Speaking of the Marine Corps, I got this wonderful book on Iwo Jima for Christmas, their were a dozen or so Medal of Honors awarded for that battle, most of them posthumously. Several of the Marines who earned the MOH that day did so by jumping on enemy grenades in order to protect their comrades. Thats a suicide.

I am curious to your opinion.
May 4th, 2007  
Grimlin
 
 
hmmm...i never thought of that as suicide...so i guess that means the secret service agents gaurding the pres are trained to commit suicide if nessacary to save the presidents life
 


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