Can the modern fighters with ECM(flares ,dispensers & automatic decoy dispensers) prevent themselves fro tha sam like patriot,spyder sam etc?

Originally Posted by rocky

Can the modern fighters with ECM(flares ,dispensers & automatic decoy dispensers) prevent themselves fro tha sam like patriot,spyder sam etc?

I would have thought there was a SAM our there that not even modern fighters can evade. With very new piece of technology used by the military there is new technology to counter it's advantages leaving the military at square 1.

Originally Posted by Yin717

I would have thought there was a SAM our there that not even modern fighters can evade. With very new piece of technology used by the military there is new technology to counter it's advantages leaving the military at square 1.

The point of an advanced stealthy fighter is not so much the enemy not knowing it is THERE but that it's very hard to track with the sort of radars and sensors that can be packed into a missle.

If you rely on a large fixed radar on the ground...that's become a VERY hard target to hide or protect. You can't get much value from a big radar if you have to turn it off and hide it in a bunker.

The fighters go in after the SEAD (Supression of Enemy Air Defense) missions are through, which in theory reduce the risk of ground radar based attacks a lot by blinding the missiles (with HARM, ALARM, etc.)

The whole SEAD thingy is shifting atm to the UAVs in the 2nd wave accompanying the Warthogs (first wave non-slavishly interpreted standard is F-16), mainly because of their large loiter times, you can read more here about the whole concept:

http://www.fas.org/man/crs/RS21141.pdf

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/usaf/...x_f/part23.htm

Once the enemy air defenses are taken out or blinded, then the gen 5 fighters have a true chance versus air-to-air and MANPADs because of their small RCS (Radar Cross Section) and IR signature, see here how it works and why:

http://www.tscm.com/rcs.pdf

Hope that helps,

Rattler

That actually depends on a large number of factors, ranging from the experience of the SAM crew to the EW-suite of the aircraft. Most Gen 4.5 fighters have a reduced RCS rather then fancy electronic countermeasures due to the fact that the systems they're most likely going to come up against (in particular russian made) are highly insusceptible. But SAM's are becoming more and more deadly thus leading to many countries developing planes that feature low-observable airframes in order provide a penetration capabillity even against systems like the S-300 or HQ-9.

In my opinion manned aircraft will become obsolete within the next 15 years because already today, there're radar systems like the 96L6E that are abeld to detect targets with a RCS of less then 0.50 m2 even at long ranges.

Originally Posted by bigeye1

...In my opinion manned aircraft will become obsolete within the next 15 years because already today, there're radar systems like the 96L6E that are abeld to detect targets with a RCS of less then 0.50 m2 even at long ranges.

Yes, I agree, on the long run (NOTE I strictly referred to air-to-air and MANPADs with the new generation fighters).

UAVs are the future in all military strike aviation aspects.

Rattler

Originally Posted by bigeye1

SAM's are becoming more and more deadly thus leading to many countries developing planes that feature low-observable airframes in order provide a penetration capabillity even against systems like the S-300 or HQ-9.

In my opinion manned aircraft will become obsolete within the next 15 years because already today, there're radar systems like the 96L6E that are abeld to detect targets with a RCS of less then 0.50 m2 even at long ranges.

I don't think manned aircraft will become obsolete, they will remain an element on the battle space with UAVs the most troublesome anti-aircraft defenses.

One problem the latest SAMs have they will make them very deadly to all but, the latest fighter-bombers is the Low Probability of Intercept (LPI) radars. This translates into, of your plane does not have "the latest" in ECM protection (whatever the form of protection), your fighter-bomber will be more vulnerable for a much greater portion of mission over enemy battle space. So if your aircraft doesn't have 'the latest' in ESM/ECM you not have a clue you are under attack!!!
The battle of ECM versus ECCM will continue and the pendulum will swing back and forth continuously!