Moderate Muslims Speak Out

I guess you MUST be the only person I have ever heard of that says that 'moderate' Muslims do not exist. Every media person, every talking head and every middle east expert that I have ever seen, heard, or read all say the same thing - "MODERATE MUSLIMS" need to speak out more strongly to help bring the war torn areas and terrorist activities under control.

Exactly what credentials do you have that makes your sermons from the mount right and everyone else's wrong??

I NEVER accused you of having psychological problems - what I said was your comments sounded as though you were an angry young man and some of your posts 'sounded' anti-social....get your accusations right please.
 
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every talking head and every middle east expert that I have ever seen, heard, or read all say the same thing - "MODERATE MUSLIMS" need to speak out more strongly to help bring the war torn areas and terrorist activities under control.

Well I guess you need to follow the news more closly and stay tuned when Muslim leaders in the U.K for an example after the London bombings did speak out on the issue Moderate Muslims. As my earlier experiance with real life Muslims that also says the same thing, it does not matter what kind of Muslim you are. Try to get that into your head, there is nothing that is called "Moderate" Muslims amongs Muslims. This is something we the WEST and WESTERN interests have made up. The bloody word is all made up. There is only Muslims. There are no Moderate Muslims aviable, they who claim to be Moderate Muslims are all infidels.

Ask any true Muslim and you get the same answer. Moderate is something that the Media, the so called experts every damn western analyst uses to cover up just another compromise so the Religion can be justified with our own western law system, so it can be allowed inside our own boundarys. Moderate is something that does not excist and has never excisted. You are fooled to belive in such a thing, and when people says anti-social then you are on grounds that touch lightly at anti-social behaviour so please stop try play dumb.

If you would have followed the live CNN reports after the London bombings you would have heard what Muslim leaders themself in London and in the rest of the U.K said about the issue Moderates vs Fanatic Islam. Even the bloody reporters tried to shadow the facts with the word Moderate and they was time after time told that there is nothing that can be called Moderate Islam. Now it has all been out there for anyone to get so stop ask me the bloody question all the time and find out for yourself the facts. They are out there, I hardly belive you will find them with ease cause in this world we hide everything that should not be seen in the open to many times cause then people might just begin to think.

Thank you

Doc.S
:viking:
 
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Moderate?

What is it with people that feel they have to defend and make up excuses for Islam? Islam is Islam! :|

The Koran was written by a warlord! Its as true as that Jesus was a loving kinda guy!

The only thing that this "moderate" stuff proves is that some people have no lifes, and have to defend people who has not asked anyone to defend them. If they are so concerned about peoples well being than why don`t they go and check how their neighbor is doing? or how the homeless people in their town are doing? but maybe that`s not very prestigious.

I remember when people said they feelt sorry for the Jews because of the holocaust, then they turn around and went "BURN ISRAEL!!!", these are the same people that says "moderate Islam" today,

HYPOCRISY!!!
 
"Moderate" Islam is only an aspiration – not a reality. "Moderate" Islam does not now exist. It must be created. Moreover, it can only be created by means of renouncing that which Islam has always been. But, on those terms, can the result still be Islam?" the problem is - The fundamental point is that Islam cannot reform itself in any lasting way, because Islam has no source of authority apart from the Koran. Fact is that In any debate between hard-liners and putative moderates, the hard-liners will have the Koran on their side and will ultimately win the debate.


Much of the argument for the existence or creation of "Moderate" Islam is motivated by the fear of an imagined by us westerners in all respect not a imagination for any Muslim out there about a apocalyptic scenario between our western civilization and Islamic societies. What our world are doing, the true moderate Westerners is putting activism before truth. Facing the truth is the first order of business when it comes to my studys on the subject. The fear of a painful solution cannot legitimately be an excuse to engage in fantasy. Facts must be faced; solutions to the problem are a separate matter.


Our aim as Westerners should not be to save the soul of Islam but to save ourselves, our values, and our civilization for future generations to come. The approach I urges is primarily intellectual. We must stop closing our eyes to the reality of jihad, stop blaming ourselves for Muslim terrorism, and stop imposing crippling taboos on our own speech. Instead, we must openly discuss the Muslims' jihadist beliefs, both among ourselves and with the Muslims.


This would force Muslims to face the truth about themselves, which in turn might bring about a positive alteration in their outlook and demands. My argument is that Muslims cannot change themselves. We must put them in a position where they will have no choice but to moderate their own attitudes and behavior toward us and not the other way around. "Islam can be whatever Muslims wish to make of it where they live. But over here you need to put reality before fantasy.


You apparently didnt watch CNN during the London Bombings, When asked by a CNN LIVE cover journalist the question "Are suicide bombings always a violation of Islam?" these "moderate Muslim clerics " answered It depends. A majority of Muslims in countries like Jordan continue to believe that suicide bombings are legitimate. All I care about is not getting blown to smithereens when I board a bus or ride a plane. I care about living in a world where terrorism and murder/suicide bombings are rejected by all or at least where I hope to live the rest of my life.


If these attitudes and behavior can´t be fixed in a "moderate" standard I say to hell with Islam inside our western civilization. Then it has nothing to do here. Common sence man, just common sence. We must stop closing our eyes, we must stop blaming ourselves for Muslim terrorism, and stop imposing crippling taboos on our own speech our culture and our values to save future generations.

Doc.S
:viking:
 
gladius said:
Its true there are moderate Muslims, but sadly I truly believe they comprise of only a minority of Muslims. I'm guessing maybe around 20% or so, of Muslims take this view.

Make this simple thought experiment please: 1000 Muslims buy their paper in the morning. They all see the caricatures on page two.

200 will think "LOL, funny because it's partially true to some extent"
600 will think "Good lord, that's distasteful, and disrespectful. Oh well, let's take a look at the sports page"
100 will think "This is an outrage, I'm going to manically hack away on my keyboard in protest on random blogs, send a complaint to the editor"
100 will think "WTF? Jihad! Let's go mash up some police, burn flags and throw rocks at buildings"

Who do you think the TV cameras will turn to??
 
Well the the 900/1000 need to say something when the 100 strats burning shit to the ground.

Oh well, let's take a look at the sports page

Like kicking a goats head around, what sports do muslims play. Soccer?
 
Uhhhhhhh......

Doc S.....
I think I have just now figured out what you have been trying to say in your 'rants'....excuse me.....in your posts...... ((((took awhile)))

Part of the problem is that your English usage within your sentence structures have masked what you were truly trying to say and it came across as anti-social and angry.

Let's see if I have it right this time...OK?

A true Muslim does not make any differentiation as to 'moderate', 'radical', 'extremist', 'modern', 'old line', etc, etc, etc, etc, etc.......

A true Muslim only recognises one single word to describe themselves and that word is "MUSLIM".......all the rest of the descriptive words are words or phrases that are 'made up' descriptions/phrases that have been 'coined' by media people who try to describe something that all true Muslims won't, can't and don't recognise. This has been why you have sounded angry because you couldn't get people to understand what you were trying to impart to us.

Part of the difficulty in resolving problems in the middle east is caused because those of us in the west who are responsible for trying to come up with a plan leading to peace can't seem to get past the hangup of believing that there are different graduations to being Muslim when those differences are not recognised by true Muslims everywhere...

HAVE I GOT IT RIGHT NOW DOC???.........Was that what you were trying to say???
 
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:-D

Sir you are perfectly right!

Thank you, thank you!

:bravo:

I know my gramma sucks period!

:lol:

That is what I have tried to say all the time around.

:sorry:

If I sounded Anti-Social man....

*Breathe in* *Breathe out*

I only wish that our leaders, media, analyst etc etc all could stick to a plan simular to what I explained up stairs - I think we would win alot more then we would loose. Well now I am just a fart in outer space so what can I do to change this world really? Not much, but I think that if more people would have put some effort into this for lets say 15 years ago, we might have had something more then a aspiration on our hands, and perhaps we would have been closer to a true Moderate version of Islam. However as you told me, it is easy to look back and point out mistakes then it would actually have been to made something good with this knowledge.

:peace:

Doc.S
:viking:
 
Rabs said:
Well the the 900/1000 need to say something when the 100 strats burning shit to the ground.



Like kicking a goats head around, what sports do muslims play. Soccer?

To perpetuate your stereotypical, narrow view on muslims: Table tennis, archery, rape, disco-dancing and shurik, where people take some dogs, shoot them in a field and then have a party.

Chief Bones, how do we know how many Muslims out there are "True Muslims"?
 
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The words weren't mine.

Mohmar Deathstrike said:
To perpetuate your stereotypical, narrow view on muslims: Table tennis, archery, rape, disco-dancing and shurik, where people take some dogs, shoot them in a field and then have a party.

Chief Bones, how do we know how many Muslims out there are "True Muslims"?
Hey! - Stop trying to be such a jerk - next time read the entire thread so you know what the hell is going on!
I was responding to Doc's posts and clearly stated so in MY post.....

I finally figured out what he was trying to impart in his posts. He was having such a terrible time getting everyone else to understand what he was saying because of his grammer and sentence structure.

ALL I DID WAS TO ARTICULATE HIS WORDS AND ASK HIM IF THAT WAS WHAT HE WAS TRYING TO SAY.

IF YOU HAD READ THE ENTIRE THREAD INSTEAD OF TRYING TO JUMP INTO THE MIDDLE OF A DISCUSSION AND START A WAR, YOU COULD HAVE SEEN IT FOR YOURSELF.
 
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Chief Bones said:
I finally figured out what he was trying to impart in his posts. He was having such a terrible time getting everyone else to understand what he was saying because of his grammer and sentence structure.

Ah, sorry for the misunderstanding.

Doc S., how do we know how many muslims are "true muslims"?
 
To perpetuate your stereotypical, narrow view on muslims: Table tennis, archery, rape, disco-dancing and shurik, where people take some dogs, shoot them in a field and then have a party.

Chief Bones, how do we know how many Muslims out there are "True Muslims"?

Well this is the scarry part and you dont have to be prejudiced or biased depending on how I could explain this to figure out that it is clearly enough true belivers to kill all of us. However I might wrong, I might be far out cycle, lets hope im wrong alright. The thing ppl talks about is the clash between civilizations, from all I know there have been books written about this phenomenon and there are several events out there that today that bring us either further from or closer to this event that in my book of Murphys law most definitly will sooner or later break loose over us can tell more about. Personally I would ask gladius more about these events, I can only speak from a non-baised study of 2½ years social studys when it comes to this matter, and I have read an important book that I think many more should read to get the picture, I can stand here and talk about Islamic threat from early morning to late night and it would simply not matter anyway, cause the information that are out here in our correct world would only tell you half the truth and a white lie if best, better to get the information from guys that knows more about this issue from a deeper perspective that is closer to the truth then I can grasp with this message. My gramma sucks and so I dont want to start another war.

Talk to gladius his theorys are better then any others even if we may disagree on the time-line for these events to take place, I say we are already there and others say it will take 15-20 years before we see this happen. However I can only speculate in what is accurate or true and I follow my gut feeling as many others as myself are doing right know. There are dark times ahead even if our different ministers and politicians refuse to admit this today when our financial interests is more important then human lifes and the stock-market togheter with alot of other financial institutes have been deceived into this temporary set back thinking togheter with alot of our largest companys. However few as always will survive this and gain huge profits and that is all that matters from what I understand, and what happens with the smaller once or the countrys that dies or disappear because of this great lie is another question. All I know is from what I have gathered from Muslims that I know and from not that all outspoken sources of obvious reasons. Hey I dont want to be an ass here - I dont control the reality, what is the reality is something we live in today, and what is the Illusion is something we are made to belive in today. Life sucks and then you die, that is how it looks. :lol:

Doc.S
:viking:
 
Tippi said:
What is it with people that feel they have to defend and make up excuses for Islam? Islam is Islam! :|

The Koran was written by a warlord! Its as true as that Jesus was a loving kinda guy!

The only thing that this "moderate" stuff proves is that some people have no lifes, and have to defend people who has not asked anyone to defend them. If they are so concerned about peoples well being than why don`t they go and check how their neighbor is doing? or how the homeless people in their town are doing? but maybe that`s not very prestigious.

I remember when people said they feelt sorry for the Jews because of the holocaust, then they turn around and went "BURN ISRAEL!!!", these are the same people that says "moderate Islam" today,

HYPOCRISY!!!
Sir! your views are very narrow!

Holy Quran is the book of GOD and Holy Prophet (PBUH) is prophet of GOD just like Jesus (PBUH). Now whether you believe this or not but over 1 billion people believe in this fact.

Holy Prophet (PBUH) was not a warlord but a very pleasant personality. He gave the concept of enlightment when people lived in dark ages and practised wrong doings. He preached about rights of women, brotherhood among people, belief in 1 God, tolerance and love.

The Arab pagans were not ready to listen as they were heavily indulged in idolism, adultry, fornication, killing of daughters, treated women as lower citizens and lots more. They even planned to kill Holy Prophet (PBUH).

Western media always try to portray things in their own ways.

Like I said before that Terrorism of today has nothing to do with a 1400 years old prophet.

Israel is also not so peace loving nation as you people try to portray it. Go and check damage done to palestine before making such comments and when some palestinian groups try to stand-up against a heavily armed enemy, they are labelled as terrorists.

Hamas tactics are wrong and most muslims do not support idea of suicide bombings but Israel is also using the same excuse to avoid progress in peace talks and indulged in killings of influential palestinian opponents.

Israel had shown some flexibility but so did muslims. Hamas now came to power in democratic way because they are also engaged in humanitarian activities in palestine.

US talks about democracy then it should also learn to deal with democratically elected governments in Middle East regardless of its interests and enemies but they are not ready to do that!

I sense HYPOCRISY too!

And you don't need to worry about our neighbours. They are doing good.

We don't support killing of Jews and neither we support killing of any palestinian (be it a Hamas member or any other).
 
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TBA_PAKI said:
Hamas tactics are wrong and most muslims do not support idea of suicide bombings but...............

I'm just curious, why can't you ever leave it as "Hamas is wrong, and most Moslems do not support their tactics." Period. End of statement. How come there is always a "but?"

Using one group to excuse the actions of another is very bad form.

Anyway, I see you do that a lot, I find it kinda odd.
 
Anyway, I see you do that a lot, I find it kinda odd.

There is nothing odd with the "but?" TBA_PAKI uses the same language as all muslim uses. Also I dont think Tippi didnt get any answers at all, so Ill give it a try.


Dear mr or mrs Tippi :pirate2:


Originally Posted by Tippi
What is it with people that feel they have to defend and make up excuses for Islam? Islam is Islam! :neutral:

The Koran was written by a warlord! Its as true as that Jesus was a loving kinda guy!

The only thing that this "moderate" stuff proves is that some people have no lifes, and have to defend people who has not asked anyone to defend them. If they are so concerned about peoples well being than why don`t they go and check how their neighbor is doing? or how the homeless people in their town are doing? but maybe that`s not very prestigious.

I remember when people said they feelt sorry for the Jews because of the holocaust, then they turn around and went "BURN ISRAEL!!!", these are the same people that says "moderate Islam" today,

HYPOCRISY!!!

1: Yes that is correct - Islam is Islam -

2: There is no prestigious cause behind an effort to get the homeless under roof that is correct. Cause the homeless does not have the means to overthrow a nations or cultures collected finances over night, right.

3: Jews are the evil people now days, no question about it - They are evil cause they dont start Riots that destroy private property for millions of Euros everytime there is a controversy here in Europe. You need a face on the evil that dont smash or crash the insurance companys inside Europe. The Jews are to few to put up a fight for their rights here in Europe. Islam has a stronghold in every European nation, that was why we interfered in the Balkan Wars in the first place. Slobodan Milosevic CNNs personal devil recognized this as early as 1987. The big lie of a functional multi ethnic socity are an Utopi illusion that only works if you dont have a religion that has as its final goal and this letterly not as Christians, Hindus, Budist, you name it to force the world into submission.

Slobodan was a man that scared the hell out of the Europeans, and they bombed him twice because of this - and they used financial embargos on Yugoslavia as they did with Iraq but Europe are different from the Middle-East. There people simply dont give a crap in sanctions. They rather die then do anything to help themselves and when they finaly get some help they bakes a roadside bomb to kill the evil infidels.

So yes the Jews are the evil people togheter with persons as Slobodan Milosevic that was a extremist but after all he was right from a certain point of view, that Islam and European values will never go hand in hand despite what these baised news agencys and historians are telling you. Adolf Hitler did it, Stalin did togheter with the European Leftwing today and the Arabs does it still today, but we let it happen cause we dont want to ask the Arabs for forgivness for being this flabby. Resistance are futile, and that is a fact, cause we have all pulled this shit over ourselves with a shit load of naivety, flipp flopps and turncoat mentality Tippi.

Doc.S
:viking:
 
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The western media needs to make a huge effort over the next few years to publisize more of the actions of moderates than the actions of fudamentalists around the world.

Fudamentalist behaviour does sell newspapers, gets TV air time etc but unfortunately it doesn't help the "moderates" cause.

The extremists want the media attention. It's like oxygen to them.
 
The western media needs to make a huge effort over the next few years to publisize more of the actions of moderates than the actions of fudamentalists around the world.

Fudamentalist behaviour does sell newspapers, gets TV air time etc but unfortunately it doesn't help the "moderates" cause.

The extremists want the media attention. It's like oxygen to them.

Oh belive me they are trying as hard as they can to find "moderates" they are as easy to find as people like myself inside Sweden. Talking about finding a needle in haystack. They do sell newspapers, they get TV air time etc etc but unfortunately it doesn`t help the "moderates" cause. Because the main problem are never adressed when this would trigger even more violence and bloodshead. The extremists want the media attention that is true, and it is also true that it is like oxygen to them, however turn the coin and look at the problem from the other side and you will know that if this would have been French students, German port workers or swedish farmers that would have been in the same situation - that is fighting for something like better employment rules for young people, salerys or swedish farmer subsidys and any of these group would open the doors for violence, pointing their fingers at our authoritys making pictures of wolfs and showing a specific group of people lets say queers to be the bad people for what is going on, there would be immediate counter demonstrations amongs the "moderates" in this part of the world. Why does this not happen in the Middle-East? or other parts of Europe when a car bomb explodes in Israel?

Why dont we see this happen when a ship is bombed outside Jordanien, as a counter-reaction for the killing of either civilians or military peacekeepers? I tell you why - cause there is no such thing, the only time I have seen "moderate" Muslims stand up and condemn violence was when this Dutch movie maker Theo Van Gogh was murdered, then we saw a serious counter demonstration but not because they did feelt sorry for Theo Van Gogh but because the Dutch society was exploding of anger and several mosques was set on fire and there was a sincer risk that the Dutch simply would have turned against everything that was a Muslim and tossed them out from their culture. That is why this counter demonstration was set in the first place. "Peace loving people" seems to have alot of conspiracys in their pockets when it comes to actions taken by different governments in this world, especialy when the C.I.A has a finger in something and so here you have a genuin theory of mine.

People sometimes says that an attack or a "suicide" is government sponsored and many times this is the case too, but we have to wait 50-80 years to gain the truth behind the conspiracy, so when people talk about "moderate" muslims taking to the streets for demonstrating something they really dont want to say is wrong in the first place, they are for sure warned off (called out) in a matter to calm the non-muslim citizens just as they do with H5 virus and other stuff. You dont want a full blown panic on your hands the 5th of july do you? People would not go to work, people would stop paying their bills and pretty soon you would have looters, murderers, snatch and grab and rapes and god knows all this on your hands and the infrastructure would simply break down in any major European nation if certain counter messures was not taken by our different leaders to calm and restrain the situation.

The politicians inside Europe knows this, they are well aware of this phenomena however they want to put this problem 20 years in to the future, "and then we would not have this problem" and so we would not have to deal with the problem, however we dont have 20 years and the closest we are to a solution on this genuine problem we are discussing right here is up to day the following, Instead of taking a fight with the Muslim community on European grounds over our culture and rights (like womens rights, freedom of speech, rule by law) they will make the public toss themselves into submission. Yes that is true and that is nothing I have taken out from thin air. This was said by our own minister of intergration that summoned the EU crisis meating our leaders had when this Dutch case was red hot.

We the people on the ground will have little or nothing to say when this agenda 21 has been put into action, so when you want to see more "moderates" on the TV you can always put on CNN and follow their reports from Iraq, Oman, Kuwait, or other small Gulf Kingdoms and see how the rich people can allow themselves being "moderate" but you will never ever see a "moderate" non-biased true documentary from the streets of Iran or any other Muslim country as long as European leaders and their allies in other parts of the world already has an agenda how to deal with Islam to not start this Panic amongs its citizens, shut your eyes not adress the problem, hear no evil, see no evil speak no evil.

Doc.S
:viking:
 
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