Moderate Muslims Speak Out

[gladius]

There you go again saying its everybody's fault except Islam.

How many times did the Arab countries try to anihilate Israel off the map. You are saying Israel is violent, but who keeps instigating the violence. Israel simply wants to exist you people want to anihilate them. You already admited that someday the Muslims will exterminate the Jews.

You people keep on justifying your acts but :cens: about what others think. This is the biggest problem.

The shoe fits both ways here. The example of the last post prove this perfectly.

 

[Missileer]

Let me add something which is being obviously overlooked in the Middle East. Israel is NOT about to be wiped off anything. They are now our allies and no amount of threats or rhetoric are changing that. They are here to stay, get used to it and go on with life.

 

[TBA_PAKI]

There you go again saying its everybody's fault except Islam.

How many times did the Arab countries try to anihilate Israel off the map. You are saying Israel is violent, but who keeps instigating the violence. Israel simply wants to exist you people want to anihilate them. You already admited that someday the Muslims will exterminate the Jews.



The shoe fits both ways here. The example of the last post prove this perfectly.

Sir! you have a habit of twisting discussions in different directions!

I never said that mistakes from our side have never been done but WEST should accept some responsiblities as current situation demands it. Why invoke further voilence from an already heated region?

Israel has still not excepted the borders of 1962 or before which is the main problem for palestinian people now. And I mentioned before that enemies of PAST have diplomatic ties with Israel now including Egypt!

Thus muslims have shown massive flexibility and all they want is end to the conflict in the region.

Palestinian rights should be respected!

Let me add something which is being obviously overlooked in the Middle East. Israel is NOT about to be wiped off anything. They are now our allies and no amount of threats or rhetoric are changing that. They are here to stay, get used to it and go on with life.

Few words for you!

Do not under-estimate others!

You people already under-estimated IRAQ and entire world knows what has happened their! :wink:

It was not "Walk-in-the-Park"!

 

[Missileer]

Few words for you!

Do not under-estimate others!

You people already under-estimated IRAQ and entire world knows what has happened their! :wink:

It was not "Walk-in-the-Park"!

We own Iraq and are at the present Democratizing them. It could have been made into a "killing field" if we had wanted to do it the old fashioned way. This time, we wanted to spare as many lives as possible. We may not be so kind hearted next time. As for the world knowing what has happened in Iraq, they see freedom and free elections. This is the radical mullahs worst nightmare, a free society.

 

[TBA_PAKI]

We own Iraq and are at the present Democratizing them. It could have been made into a "killing field" if we had wanted to do it the old fashioned way. This time, we wanted to spare as many lives as possible. We may not be so kind hearted next time. As for the world knowing what has happened in Iraq, they see freedom and free elections. This is the radical mullahs worst nightmare, a free society.

I understand your achievements but the COST is massive and you people need to realize that!

Security is not good and new Iraqi Army is not even capable of holding Baghdad on their own. Iraq is total mess now and Mr. Rumsfield is talking about reducing number of troops!

And it's not a FREE Country Sir! and it is under occupation! :wink:

 

[Missileer]

I understand your achievements but the COST is massive and you people need to realize that!

Security is not good and new Iraqi Army is not even capable of holding Baghdad on their own. Iraq is total mess now and Mr. Rumsfield is talking about reducing number of troops!

And it's not a FREE Country Sir! and it is under occupation! :wink:

Security has improved 100%. The cost of freedom is always massive for those who put a price on freedom. The allies have agreed to stay as long as it takes to train and equip a very effective defense force. Iraq has now got more running water and sewage treatment facilities than it had ever had. The power grids are firing up and along with all this, schools from kindergarten through University are coming up to par.

You are either reading the wrong newspapers or someone is lying to you. America has never stayed in a defeated country. We leave when all the help we can give them is done. Are we still running Germany, Japan, Mexico? No on all accounts.

By the way, if anyone has any ideas to the contrary, I wouldn't advise them to take on Iraq when their defense force is left to their own devices when we leave. They won't be the nice, warm fellows they are now. I imagine without the restraint of the allies, insurgents will be skinned alive, if they're lucky.

I want to add a little side note for you, intel is now coming almost exclusively from Iraqi citizens. they want the insurgents out and are turning them in more and more.

 

[phoenix80]

I want to add a little side note for you, intel is now coming almost exclusively from Iraqi citizens. they want the insurgents out and are turning them in more and more.

True!

Read Iraqi blogs

 

[bulldogg]

This thread resembles something of a microcosm of the middle east... interesting the complete lack of understanding and myopia... by all means continue I am amused to say the least.

 

[Doc.S]

I say there is nothing that can be called a Moderate Muslim, either you are a Muslim or you are not. That is what Muslim leaders in London said to CNN when the London bombings took place. They spooken right into the cameras and both women and men amongs the Muslim population speaked out on this issue and there was a total agreement about this issue. The west however have made this fariy tale about what is the Muslim world or not. The word Moderate is something completly made-up by western interests. I am not for an expansion into the Middle-East, I am not for a democratic built up in the Middle-East.

I was against the war on Iraq, because I think leaders as Saddam Hussein was good for that country. Today I am for the war, cause the Americans when they leave there will be no mercy for the so called Insurgents and people over there will pretty much have the same way as during Saddam Husseins day but infact more of a Western so called Moderate attitude, even if this expression is completly rubish it will work in Iraq. I support Israel when my relatives that moved to the U.S shead their blood to defend democray in Europe. I recognize Israels right to excist out from science not from a religious point of view. I am not a jew but I can still see what is right and what is wrong. They are on their rightfully lands and Palestina is just a good example of what happens when you have alot of Muslims that gather at one place and then takeover.

This will eventually happen inside Europe too if not steps are taken to avoid this kind of agressive religious takeover. Western countrys should bann Islam as we did with National Socialism cause it is a direct threat to our western culture, however visiting Muslims in business should have the right to pray in special zones, but to become a citizen inside Europe you would have to convert from Islam. Find new means of fuel like the Brazilians are doing right now. Let the Muslims live their life, let them follow their religion but let it happen inside their own lands and without Western influence or help.

Let the people judge what is right or what is wrong, I say the Muslim world should not be treated any way different then Hamas in Palestine will be treated untill they have managed to take steps to a real Moderate religion as Christianity has been made and forced to do in the west. America should protect Isreals right to excistance with every means and Europe has a commitment to keep all jews safe in their new holy land. Make it perfectly clear who was first, and who was there at a later date. There is alot of scientifc facts that can be used to show the truth about this issue, by showing the truth and stick to the truth you dont justify anything of what is happening at the moment and have been taking place the last 70 years. Honesty is what this world lacks, and when honesty are replaced by lies people get angry, and the ultimate goal of peace will never be accomplished when we keep belive in our own lies, or lies forced on us by corrupt leaders and religious fanatics and warlords.

eace:

Each day we lose a little bit more of our separate, sovereign ability to determine our own futures... and each day the world comes a little bit closer to that terrible moment when the beating of a butterfly's wings unleashes a hurricane God himself cannot stop.

Doc.S
:viking:

 

[gladius]

Doc.S is right on so many levels.

This thread resembles something of a microcosm of the middle east... interesting the complete lack of understanding and myopia... by all means continue I am amused to say the least.

Yes it does, and this is precisely why the clash will take place. ...But the Muslims already know this. It is in their prophecies, they beleive it. The same fanaticism that made them riot over a silly cartoon will make them try to fullfill it. You already saw a small example here, of their andherance to this. I am no longer as hopeful as I once was, of any moderates will, or attempts to pacify Islam.

Bottom line, the War of Civilizations will take place.

 

[Doc.S]

gladius
Bottom line, the War of Civilizations will take place.

All critical voices are effectivly silenced at the moment, the people of different European nations are so brainwashed by the lies that they defend actions taking place against critical ministers around the world. Critical voices with messages of warning to the people are dropping one after one like ripe figs, So this is how liberty and democracy dies? With thunderous applause and a new debunking CNN program do you really know the Middle-East? I think the war is here, or let me clearify this, I dont think anymore. Everything you see today is up for a disabled enhanced wave of violence, it will only gain more strenght for each day that goes. I personally think that a good Investment right now is to turn everything that can be called assets into gold, or loose everything to the upcoming crisis. This is my advice for 2006.
eace:

Doc.S
:viking:

 

[TBA_PAKI]

The word Moderate is something completly made-up by western interests. I am not for an expansion into the Middle-East, I am not for a democratic built up in the Middle-East.

WEST is modern and not moderate!

I recognize Israels right to excist out from science not from a religious point of view. I am not a jew but I can still see what is right and what is wrong. They are on their rightfully lands and Palestina is just a good example of what happens when you have alot of Muslims that gather at one place and then takeover.

Big flaw here!

Israeli dispute has nothing to do with science. It has to do much more with politics and religion.

One example: Jerusalem city (important for muslims, christians and Jews from religious point of view). And it has nothing to do with science!

You level of understanding of this conflict is very poor!

This will eventually happen inside Europe too if not steps are taken to avoid this kind of agressive religious takeover. Western countrys should bann Islam as we did with National Socialism cause it is a direct threat to our western culture, however visiting Muslims in business should have the right to pray in special zones, but to become a citizen inside Europe you would have to convert from Islam.

It will become Western fundementalism and your talk of Freedom of Expression will go in to dust!

Also can't work like that for business men because they will not work under such restrictions and WEST will suffer economical set-back!

"Globalization" is too important for WEST!

Find new means of fuel like the Brazilians are doing right now. Let the Muslims live their life, let them follow their religion but let it happen inside their own lands and without Western influence or help.

That would be really appreciated!

In-fact! China and Russia are better markets now and they don't interfere in our matters!

There is alot of scientifc facts that can be used to show the truth about this issue, by showing the truth and stick to the truth you dont justify anything of what is happening at the moment and have been taking place the last 70 years.

Science has nothing to do with this conflict. It is of political nature!

I gave an example above!

Plus, their are many more other examples that prove my point!

You need to study this conflict first and and root causes before jumping to conclusions!

 

[sven hassell]

This thread resembles something of a microcosm of the middle east... interesting the complete lack of understanding and myopia... by all means continue I am amused to say the least.

Wish I was this articulate. Im not so all I need to say is Ditto the above.

 

[Doc.S]

WEST is modern and not moderate!

We are as Moderate as anything on this earth can be at the time, however Im glad that you didnt defend the Moderate Muslim issue cause that is as I have known all the time only a western word to suite their business when it suits their political agenda.

Big flaw here!

Israeli dispute has nothing to do with science. It has to do much more with politics and religion.

One example: Jerusalem city (important for muslims, christians and Jews from religious point of view). And it has nothing to do with science!

You level of understanding of this conflict is very poor!

Well my claims can be proven any day people are allowed to send teams of archeologists to the sites. But that would not be allowed, and yes I guess I have a very poor understanding of this conflict and so let me present something out from a real event that are just another proof.

At the emergency meeting of the UN regarding another conflict in the Middle East, the floor has been given to the Israeli Consul. The Israeli Consul began, "Ladies and gentlemen before I commence with my speech, I wanted to relay an old story to all of you... When Moses was leading the Jews out of Egypt he had to go through deserts, and prairies, and even more deserts... The people became thirsty and needed water. So Moses struck the side of a mountain with his cane and at the sight of that mountain a pond appeared with crystal clean, cool water. And the people rejoiced and drank to their hearts' content. Moses wished to cleanse his whole body, so he went over to the other side of the pond, took all of his clothes off and dove into the cool waters of the pond. Only when Moses came out of the water he discovered that all his clothes have been stolen... And I have reasons to believe that the Palestinians stole his clothes." Yassir Arafat, hearing this accusation, jumps out of his seat and screams, "This is a travesty. It is widely known that there were no Palestinians there at the time!!!" "And with that in mind", said the Israeli Consul, "let me begin my speech..."

It will become Western fundementalism and your talk of Freedom of Expression will go in to dust!

Also can't work like that for business men because they will not work under such restrictions and WEST will suffer economical set-back!

"Globalization" is too important for WEST!

Oh yes I would live in a western so called "fundementalism" socity any day if I had the chance to choose on the matter. However this is something that wont happen, so I guess that when I leave Scandinavia there is only a Eastern Fundementalism left. Business works as long as the different interests can see that they can gain any profit out from it. When stuff begin to go bad, they will return and leave the Globalization dream just as any other bad idé. The world only works as it does today because of no larger outbreaks of unrest. To gain what they dream they need a mass death event, However with the H5 virus it might be possible after all. The fifth seal was apparently opened yesterday in Nigeria if we can belive the religious people. Then we just wait and see what happens.

That would be really appreciated!

In-fact! China and Russia are better markets now and they don't interfere in our matters!

Indeed the faster we get out of that region, the better for us. China will collapse within 5 years and Russia has always been flexible so they will be just fine before everything have been turned over. They got everything that the West need and so I think relations with Russia should be a priority 1 issue if we look at this with a realistic geostrategic eye so to speak.

Science has nothing to do with this conflict. It is of political nature!

I gave an example above!

Plus, their are many more other examples that prove my point!

You need to study this conflict first and and root causes before jumping to conclusions!

As I look upon this issue science is everything in this conflict, the political nature is something we have been forced into, because of weak minded short time politicians. You only prove your point out from what is political right as I look upon this. I have study this conflict and the middle-east from a non baised point of view and I regard my own knowledge to be sufficient enought to see where this all is going, there are no Moderate Muslims period, there are nothing that can be called a Western Fundamentalism state cause in Europe this will fail because over here the Illusion are more important then the Reality, and so all sucessful socitys have died out sooner or later and this I have recognized, this socity we are living in today, the west that is are so decadent that we actually belive in our own lies. That is why the Middle East will win this conflict any time.

eace:

Doc.S
:viking:

 

[Chief Bones]

Bushwah

I'm sorry - but - most of the recent posts in this thread are so much bushwah.

Terrorism is ABSOLUTELY, IN NO WAY a political statement. IT IS TERRORISM.

I DON'T CARE WHAT EXCUSE IS USED - THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR THE USE OF TERRORIST TACTICS.

Anyone who supports ANY group which uses these tactics are as guilty of crimes against humanity as those who use them to kill and maim thousands of innocents.

period.

 

[Doc.S]

Anyone who supports ANY group which uses these tactics are as guilty of crimes against humanity as those who use them to kill and maim thousands of innocents.

Indeed but try tell that to the people that still think that Hamas can be turned over from the "darkside" and be "civilized" as the PLO was. As long as they got the support from states as Iran, Syria and the leftist Europe the so called peace process on terrorist terms will continue untill this silent war is ended with alot of smaller theocratic zones all over Europe. But hey we got all the Moderates on our side dont we? Lets win this by taking away some more of our constitutions, why not put in special clerical courts for all our new happy citizens, why not follow swedens example - take away Interest of loans if you are a Muslim. I think it is rubish, the truth is out there for everyone that want to look upon this issue from a non baised or non religious or non political point of view. The only thing people have forgotten in all their pride over the big fast food know how is how to toss themself into submission and point fingers at them that dont look upon this from the Political correct point of view, it is really a a disgraceful tale to look at if anyone would use my eyes for one minute. I worship everything that is free and served, and I never question why I am told to think like I do, I am the perfect citizen, I can eat the whole cookie and still have a cookie when I have eaten the first one. Take our libertys away, I am responsible for everything that are going on right now, crucify me and whip the flesh from my bones, I do not deserve this perfect socity of peace love and understanding!

ray:
eace:

Doc.S
:viking:

 

[Chief Bones]

Indeed but try tell that to the people that still think that Hamas can be turned over from the "darkside" and be "civilized" ....... the so called peace process on terrorist terms will continue untill this silent war is ended ........ But hey we got all the Moderates on our side dont we? Lets win this by taking away some more of our constitutions, why not put in special clerical courts for all our new happy citizens, why not follow swedens example ...... I think it is rubish, the truth is out there for everyone that want to look upon this issue .......... The only thing people have forgotten in all their pride over the big fast food know how is how to toss themself into submission and point fingers at them that dont look upon this from the Political correct point of view, it is really a a disgraceful tale to look at if anyone would use my eyes for one minute. I worship everything that is free and served, and I never question why I am told to think like I do, I am the perfect citizen, I can eat the whole cookie and still have a cookie when I have eaten the first one. Take our libertys away, I am responsible for everything that are going on right now, crucify me and whip the flesh from my bones, I do not deserve this perfect socity of peace love and understanding!

I am sorry for you - why are you so angry? Has someone dumped in your morning cereal?

Most of us DO understand that many of the policies that ARE and WERE put in place were compromises. The best of the worst choices available at the time. Isn't 20X20 hindsight just peachy? It allows you to make some of the idiotic statements you have made without having to REALLY take an argument apart and come up with a set of alternative policies which would correct the shortcomings that our leaders had no control over.

How does it feel to be GOD and judge your fellow man? Offer some alternatives.......

 

[Doc.S]

Angry me?

:lol:

Well all I have to say is that the truth hurts more for some people then it does for others.

I wonder if anyone wonders why this world went so peaceful so suddenly? No riots no nothing are reported on the subject anymore. H5 virus are the main issue now, together with the Balkan Wars again. Then we have Nigeria and the oil crisis there, the cartoons have been forgotten over night. Well there is another news too - A man convicted to 3 years in prison for denying the holocaust, I wonder if we have room for everyone that makes these stupid statements what so ever if we so built a hundred thousend more prisons. I find it funny, Im not angry, not at all, and I am not suprised either, you need to show the world the "reality" again.

Doc.S
:viking:

 

[Chief Bones]

Sorry - you sure come across as angry.

Your posts are full of damning comments for every topic that is discussed. I would almost characterize them as anti-social.

(SORRY - JUST MY OBSERVATION).

 

[Doc.S]

No need to be sorry, I got a different point of view on the issues that are discussed that is all, and anti-social behavior cant be my problem, we may disagree but I dont point my finger at you and tells you that you got psychological disorder when you disagree on my points of views, I respect that people has different point of views but if they are true or only figments of the imagination is another question but I never analyze that when it comes to other people, I have study psychology when it comes with the package of my profession, but I can assure you that my reactions are as defensive messures as yours when it comes to our different points of views. The differeance between us is that I dont use my knowledge as a weapon to point out that you in any way should be sick or have a psychological disorder as antísocial personality disorder or APD because I might be right and you might be wrong on something that can be proven as common sense or as facts if we so want to.

However this thread is about "Moderate" Muslims speaking out, I have only pointed out the fact that this word - Moderate does not excist amongs Muslims themselves, I have also pointed out a number of actions that could or should be taken by the different leaders of the world, togheter with the Media that also has a great responsibility to report the truth and not fiction to people, but I think both of us knows that this wont happen, not untill gladius "prophecys" more like facts have been a realization and then it is already to late. Yes I will continoue to disagree with the world as long as it keep on lie for the public about how this world really looks or works, yes I will continue to disagree with everyone that may want to find compromisses to solve this worlds problems with even more lies and half-ass solutions that has failed everytime it has been used. Yes the world today is only this violent because we continue to protect what is wrong with these compromisses. Someone needs to take out the skeletons out from the wardrobes and tell the truth, to few are doing this, and that is why we got a religious war or clash between our different cultures on our hands today as we speak, because to many gets a muzzle and some are made up with excuses that makes them the anti-social people - and not those who really are to be blaimed.

eace:

Doc.S
:viking: