Moderate Muslims Speak Out

Nazi-2bookburning.GIF

When they do as they are doing right now with our consitution, we are not far from this - and that scares the hell out of me. Thank you guys for your understanding. I feel so powerless, and the courts of justice in this country are all on the payrole of the same people that let this kind of special exceptional cases take place, a man in scandia have been by Swedish court forbidden to have the swedish flag raised during any other days then when it is national hollidays. That speaks some of our current justice system and the people behind these kind of "exceptional cases" they have been doing this all since 1991 and I am sick and tierd.

I live in a country that sell everything, including our constitutional rights when it suites their political agendas. As I told in my first message, I do not necessarily support the Political party or its newspaper and views that was put down, but the principles are not to be subject for interpretations when this is our culture, and our given right to defend what is our culture.

I think it is one-sided all this that can be called debate and that Denmark takes the heat from something that the rest of Europe also should defend instead of playing flip-flops with these extreamists when it suites their business. This is as much a Danish fight of freedom of the press as it is a swedish issue and a French issue cause this is one of our main building stones that people with short time solutions opens doors for permanent changes that in the end will fall over all democratic countrys out there. I feel ashamed to be a Swede today! :peace:

Doc.S
:viking:
 
Having been a member of a religion that is routinely belittled and made fun of all of my life, I can certainly understand what it is like to have my own sacred beliefs trampled upon. I happen to be a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, also known as Mormons. There's plenty of misconceptions about us, the most common false rumor is that we practice polygamy. The more creative false rumors involve us worshipping cows, dogs and horses. I'm extremely familiar with my own beliefs being misunderstood, mistold and so forth. There's a significant amount of hate-mongering press for us as well.

But it would be unfathomable for any of us to respond to such attacks in the same ways as the Muslim world has. If I were to go bomb an Anti-Mormon newspaper, for instance, I'd 1.) Get excommunicated, and 2.) Get arrested and spend time in prison. Nobody in my religion would condone my actions. All would shun me. That's life in a religion that is really and truly peaceful.

Islam is something else altogether. The majority of them, in my opinion, do not subscribe to the hate and violence that their fundamentalist bretheren spread, but even the best of them (in my experience) will find excuses for those murdering bastards. "You can't really blame the Palestinians for reacting in that way." "The War On Terror is really a War on Islam in the minds of our people, so why be surprised when they bomb you?" The more sane majority of the Muslim World does not do enough to denounce violence committed by Muslims.

The Muslim Press is highly focussed on pointing out every possible flaw with the non-Muslim world. I am not aware of any attempt by the Muslim Press to ever bother to report on the genocide in Sudan. The "evils" of the Western World is apparently much more important to focus their attention on.
 
After the recent Demonstrations by muslims at the Danish embassy,I too shall be visiting embassys this week.
With the intention of emmigrating.
I refuse to live in a country,or my sons to be raised in, with a government that allows people dressed as Suicide bombers bearing placards mocking the deaths of 9/11 and 7/7 victims to burn flags in public.
The only arrests this week have been of people(NOT THUGS OR RIGHT WING EXTREMISTS) who have tried to organise counter demonstrations under the new religious hate crime laws.
It seems to be one rule for the majority and another for the minority.
If anyone thinks i'm overreacting,go to London and see for yourselves.
If this was to happen in the U.S. I wonder whether the authorities would have time to cart them all off to Camp X-ray before there was a public lynching.
 
A few questions before I weigh in on whether you are "overreacting."

sven hassell said:
After the recent Demonstrations by muslims at the Danish embassy,I too shall be visiting embassys this week.
With the intention of emmigrating.
I refuse to live in a country,or my sons to be raised in, with a government that allows people dressed as Suicide bombers bearing placards mocking the deaths of 9/11 and 7/7 victims to burn flags in public.
By this, am I to assume that you are living somewhere in the Middle East?
 
godofthunder9010 said:
A few questions before I weigh in on whether you are "overreacting."

By this, am I to assume that you are living somewhere in the Middle East?
NO ENGLAND AND THATS WHY IM SOOOO ANGRY ABOUT IT.
Im afraid im a philistine with computers and dont know how to show links but check out U.K. newspapers(e.g. Telegraph) to see im not exagerating.
 
sven hassell said:
NO ENGLAND AND THATS WHY IM SOOOO ANGRY ABOUT IT.
Im afraid im a philistine with computers and dont know how to show links but check out U.K. newspapers(e.g. Telegraph) to see im not exagerating.

We hear you buddie!
 
sven hassell said:
NO ENGLAND AND THATS WHY IM SOOOO ANGRY ABOUT IT.
Im afraid im a philistine with computers and dont know how to show links but check out U.K. newspapers(e.g. Telegraph) to see im not exagerating.
Pretty damn stupid on the part of the government over there then. My sympathies.
 
Gladius is right, Europe's doomed.

Most definitly!

There is one person on this place that knows what he is talking about when it comes to this quesiton indeed. His name is gladius, I dont know where they make men like him? But if anyone has an adress, let me know cause a place with alot of gladius, have to be one of the safest places on earth at the moment. I and Sven Hassel can make a club, however I dont think I can visit a foreign embassy and claim that I seek political asylum from stupidity without any boundarys. Latest news from Sweden. Now will they brainwash our kids from the early years in the schools telling them that bashing Muhammed is wrong, but still I wonder if they also adress the fact to not be considered a infidel you have to convert or die too? And that they also tell in that book how and why that Duch journalist and movie maker died too. Stright down to hell, if you are lucky you die before gladius "prophecy" have been completly assimilated. :lol:

Doc.S
:viking:
 
Unfortunately I'm a minority when it comes to this view. Unless we get our "miracle" which is openess and democracy in the Muslims countries the Clash of Civilizations will happen. Europe will assimilated, or be weakened enough to be a tempting target for armed invasion by a future Muslim empire.

I saw the writting on the wall long before this came into "fashion", long before Thoe VanGough's murder, long before the Paris riots, long before the Danish cartoons. This stuff is just the begining, there will be more. If you doubt me, then ask yourself if they had changed their ways since the last embasy was burned. 20 years form now I guarrantee you, those of you who don't believe me now will say, that guy was right all along.

All you have to do is look at the evidence. Forget about how you feel, look at the evidence plain and simple, regardless of if you feel about this, good or bad. What have examples have you seen so far? What does past and present history tell you? Unbiasly study the effects on the lives of non-Muslims in Muslim countries. How have the majority Muslims acted toward extremist? Don't take for granted what they say (people can say anything), look at the effects of what is being done. How are most of them reacting to their host countries? Why such ressitance to assimilation? Why is there violent conflict between Muslims and non-Muslims in virtually every country were there is a large percentage of Muslims? All this and more. ...And if you don't believe this, then take the easy way out and do the math. The math is that Europe has a shrinking population, Islamic birthrate and immigration within Europe is growing exponentially, what will that equate to?

If you were to give this as evidence in a court of law what would the jury be?

Perhaps this clash is truly inevitable. Maybe its too late to stop it from happening. I personally believe it is too late stop it from happening. This may be inevitable, but there are still things we can do to at least stop it from totaly engulfing us. What we do now will determin if we survive it or not. The question is how long before the rest of us wake up to do something about it?
 
History shows that throughout time Europe's borders, governments and culture are cyclical. So be it.
You can't change the tide. How does that prayer go... something about having the wisdom to know the difference between things you can and cannot change.
 
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.

[/FONT]You're right somethings we can't change. The question is, do we have the courage to change the things we can? More important, do we have the wisdom needed to take a course of action?
 
Last edited:
Thanks Gladius, I'm suffering from a mild form of malaria so my mental faculties are a bit dodgy. Bloody P. Vivax... anyhow in my current condition I wonder if changes in Europe are one of those things we can't change? I think it was Buddha who said that the source of all suffering was not accepting change.
 
gladius said:
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.

[/FONT]You're right somethings we can't change. The question is, do we have the courage to change the things we can? More important, do we have the wisdom needed to take a course of action?
Yes! you can by not doing things that can incite voilence in muslim world or even in Europe.

If you can understand the concept of responsibility and mutual-understanding of different cultures around the world then world will be more peaceful region.

If you are concerned about extremists, then you should note that things of this nature (like cartoons of Muhammad (PBUH)) provide an excuse to these people to further intensify acts of voilence. And this weakens the case of Moderates.

The best solution lies in educating these people to enlightment and it is a slow process but in the light of conflicts between civilizations, I don't know that how this can be achieved.

First, it was IRAQ WAR and now these stupid cartoons!

You people keep on justifying your acts but :cen: about what others think. This is the biggest problem.

Terrorism cannot be defeated just through Military Might and insulting a Religion. You people need to understand this or face a long and destructive fight with no end in sight. You are just providing an excuse to the extremist people to continue their dirty work!

Just count the number of Suicide Bombing Attacks in IRAQ alone and the number of dead by them. You will get a bigger picture!

Latest News:

- Protests are taking place in different parts of my country today over Blasphemous Cartoons. Businesses are shut around the country today. Police is deployed in heavy numbers in different parts of the country.

One such incident came in to high-lights:

LINK: http://www.geo.tv/geonews/details.asp?id=106401&newscategory=pakistan
 
Last edited by a moderator:
First, it was IRAQ WAR and now these stupid cartoons!

You people keep on justifying your acts but :cen: about what others think. This is the biggest problem.

1) Which of the many Iraq wars do you mean?
2) I agree with you about the education bit. But shouldn't it be "We keep on justifying our acts and do :cen: about what we think!" As long as we talk in them and us, it won't work. And I don't see that happen anythime soon.....
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Ted said:
1) Which of the many Iraq wars do you mean?
2) I agree with you about the education bit. But shouldn't it be "We keep on justifying our acts and do :cen: about what we think!" As long as we talk in them and us, it won't work. And I don't see that happen anythime soon.....
I am talking about latest IRAQ WAR (since 2003)!

Which is not popular at all.

And education takes time to show its impact on a group of people but the incidents that insult a religion are making things worse!

Here is a CLEAR Example:

"Muslim Extremist have adopted a wrong path to convey their passage. Moderate or proper muslims tell them that they should carry out their agenda in peaceful manner. WEST does something that offends all muslims by insulting Islam. Extremists react badly but Moderates tell them that they should still resort to peaceful manner but extremists tell them that it is of no use as WEST will not change its attitude."

Now in the light of this example, it is clear that these people need to be educated because they have adopted wrong path but then providing them an excuse to re-start their ambitions is like hitting your feet with hammer. If Europeans expect Moderate muslims to educate these muslims then WEST should co-operate with them and stop attacking Islam because it will also effect Moderate Muslims.

Like I said before that Military Might and insulting a Religion is not the solution to this problem.

Is this so difficult to understand that you people keep on asking questions?
 
TBA_PAKI said:
I am talking about latest IRAQ WAR (since 2003)!

Which is not popular at all.

And education takes time to show its impact on a group of people but the incidents that insult a religion are making things worse!

Here is a CLEAR Example:

"Muslim Extremist have adopted a wrong path to convey their passage. Moderate or proper muslims tell them that they should carry out their agenda in peaceful manner. WEST does something that offends all muslims by insulting Islam. Extremists react badly but Moderates tell them that they should still resort to peaceful manner but extremists tell them that it is of no use as WEST will not change its attitude."

Now in the light of this example, it is clear that these people need to be educated because they have adopted wrong path but then providing them an excuse to re-start their ambitions is like hitting your feet with hammer. If Europeans expect Moderate muslims to educate these muslims then WEST should co-operate with them and stop attacking Islam because it will also effect Moderate Muslims.

Like I said before that Military Might and insulting a Religion is not the solution to this problem.

Is this so difficult to understand that you people keep on asking questions?

Paki, the faithful can be IN the world and not OF it. In other words, don't partake of anything you feel is wrong, people will respect you for it. But, at the same time, if they want to partake, it's their business. Hell will be crowded enough.
 
I look upon this issue like this

People in the west should respect the prophet Muhammed. But then how about the Muslims respect the west? Numerous publications inside Middle-Eastern newspapers, media and the latest Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad called the Holocaust a "fairy tale", he also said that this cartoons is a "Zionist plot" against not only Muslims but also those genuinely committed to Christianity and Judaism. Where are the Moderate Muslims protesting this kind of behaviour? There have been a contest simular to the Ylland Post where Muslims should make the best picture of the holocaust, but we are not attacking embassys or burning Iranian or Syrian or Egyptian flags do we? "The west should walk this earth on high heels and trip on their toes" while Muslims in the world can sham the west and the jews whenever it please them cause they dont know any better right?

That is double standards if anything, and I have never been for special treatment for anything or anyone. The west however got a weak and corrupt leadership, many are socialist govs that has a leftist media outlet that only show the "poor" muslims and evil caricatures of emotionless western leaders that do not kiss ass to speak frankly enough to give the so called Moderates to stop burning embassys and shanting their hatred against everything that is western. There is a reason that Europe excist today in its present form. A coalition of European armys manage to halt the hords of the prophet muhammed before they could conquer Europe completly.

Point is that even back then people could separate right from wrong and put their boots in the ground and defend what they belived in. Today you got this Gobels look alike propaganda machinery that spits out tolerance and the favourit of all official quotes from CNN - To understand Iraqi insurgents you have to speak with Iraqi insurgents. Well what is there to understand that most of us already knows? Remember in the west we are the people that are wrong, we are the devils because we may think from time to time, the only thing that allows us to do so is because we dont have to consult a manual everytime we try to think. Even if we are few in numbers we think, and sometimes a small country awaken and speak their mind and then all hell should break loose and we should just put our heads into the sand and pretend that we didnt see this comming?

The moderate political leaders, the ass kissers that is, that could sell their own mom for a second term in power regardless if their whole culture are mashed potatos when they leave the office, has spoiled the Muslim world with their eternal submission of the western culture, it is a bloody miracle that the west world have not seen this comming untill now. People begin to think now, people begin to understand what is an Illusion and what is the reality out there, and the big machine that have kissed asses untill their mouths are full of excrement begin to get the truth in their heads by the silent moderate westerners that have not spoken their mind in these issues yet but they will when it is election days, and no propaganda movies about tolerance will help the fifth colonists to get their agenda to sell our culture out will help them stay in office, that is if we can manage to have a free and not baised election, wich I doubt we can have when everything is this corrupt and totaly one sided with one vision of lies that should be protected by all cost by them in power.

Westerners will show what they think in the next elections ahead just as the Palestinians showed what they belived in. And all that votes will give Europe something to think about before they begin to kiss ass and suck the soul out of culture after culture just to please this twisted double standards that are so often pointed at when the so called Moderate Muslims begin to speak their mind. But far from all countrys will show what they think because the Gobles machinery, that will succeed to brianwash thousends of westerners to submit to the current conditions and so a couple of false bloodlines will continoue this joke untill it bites them in the arse, did you know that during the last election over here in Sweden our prime minister Göran Persson did make a pre-recorded tape that he let send out to over 7000 voters via phone where he told them not to vote on non-political-correct partys? Sick I say, that is why I want the international community to supervise the next elections inside sweden.

The international community should supervise the elections carefully, when Russia had elections they talked about Putin won the elction beacuse of baised media etc etc. Dont think for a second that Sweden is a exception. The international community should have people to supervise the media all the different unions and the schools, everything that are involved in this corrupt system of lies. Then and only then I think we would have a fair election inside Sweden. I belive that if this happend we would have a free election that are not baised and one sided and the muzzle from tens of thousends of Swedes would be lifted and this part of the world could stand a better chance.

:peace:

Doc.S
:viking:
 
Doc.S

Let me tell you a few things!

Their had been two attacks on Ahmadinejad's convoy in IRAN.

Another thing is that his views do not reflect the views of entire muslim world. You just focus on intentions of one man and paint them as a view of entire muslim world.

Also, Israel has a a history of voilence and IRAN cannot be compared to it. IRAN does not have expansionist desires like that of US and Israel. Lets face the facts. The war against IRAN was thrusted by Saddam and they had to defend their country from an invasion.

After that we haven't seen any expansionist desires of Iranian people. But still US branded IRAN as part of "Axis of Evil" because it harbours Al-Qaeda elements but so far no proof has been provided. This hostility is not new but it is since the Iranian Revolution and that spoke the minds of Iranian people and not that of WEST.

Now Israel has Nuclear Weapons and if a nation in Middle East tries to get them then it is a threat to Israeli Interests. This is not double standards right?

Just because a nation gets Nuclear Weapons does not means that it will use it in conflicts. People in Asia are more wiser then you westeners think about them!

Now another thing is that if we moderates are to be branded as "so called moderates and people who are fooling around" then let me remind you that the most destructive war in human history has yet to come.

Because you people don't get message that easily or realize you mistakes.
 
Back
Top