Moderate Muslims Speak Out - Page 2




 
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Moderate Muslims Speak Out
 
February 7th, 2006  
phoenix80
 
 
Moderate Muslims Speak Out
the level of tolerance among Muslims, especially the radical ones, are lower than any other religious groups.
February 7th, 2006  
bulldogg
 
 
I agree with Chief Bones's sentiment on this subject. The cartoonists themselves have now gone on record as stating that the Danish paper in question with this whole fiasco did in fact solicit the offending drawings from them. They told the cartoonists what they wanted depicted. They purposefully caused this situation. They intended on the results you see before you. This is not freedom of the press, this is an arsehole with a newspaper throwing gasoline on a fire. The reaction from muslims may seem extreme but in this instance they were baited. Who do you blame the dog for biting or the stupid kid that kicked the dog?
February 7th, 2006  
Redleg
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bulldogg
Who do you blame the dog for biting or the stupid kid that kicked the dog?
In this case the dog didn't only bite the stupid kid, but all of his family, the entire neighborhood, the rest of the town, and then continued to bite everyone else who looked remotely like the kid...

The major opinion in both Denmark and Norway is that it was wrong to publish those cartoons.
But the "popular opinion" in most of the muslim countries that have protested/rioted against these cartoons seems to be that Norway and Denmark has conspired(?) towards muslims in general, and we do nothing else all day than thinking up new ways to insult muslims...
Many of the cartoons that have circulated haven't even been published in any of the Newspapers here, but have been made by others just to add more "fuel to the fire".
And my guess is that the majority of those who have demonstrated/rioted haven't even seen a single one of the real cartoons themselves, and certainly don't know that it was originally only just a tiny Norwegian magazine, and one Danish newspaper that published them.

The problem, as I see it, is that there are (a few) strong leaders on top that are manipulating the masses for their own hidden agenda (whatever that may be).
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Moderate Muslims Speak Out
February 7th, 2006  
bulldogg
 
 
I agree with your final sentence, they are being manipulated and told half truths as sure as those in the west are being spoon-fed stories of muslims and hatred.

I do not believe there is widespread rioting and demonstrations being held in muslim countries as what I just saw with my own eyes proves they are lying in the media in their reporting of the incidents in Indonesia. Why would I ever trust them to be telling the truth about what is happening in other countries?? In 1991 I read stories about Iraq about an incident in a place where I was present with others and witnessed the acts reported, but I can tell you what I read bore absolutely no resemblance to what actually happened.

Don't believe the hype. None of it from either side of this issue is accurate and correct. The west is being lied to and the muslims are being lied to and both sides are being played like fiddles by their masters and people are blindly dancing to the music... just like they want you to.
February 7th, 2006  
Locke
 
 
Take from the Age online


Igniting a tinderbox of intolerance



Newspaper cartoonists are in the business of being provocative, as Age readers will know. Rarely, if ever, have they provoked such a response as have 12 cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad that were drawn at the invitation of Danish broadsheet Jyllands-Posten and first published on September 30. The sacrilegious images were calculated to offend Muslims - the paper was drawing attention to self-censorship under threat of extremist reprisals - and the outrage has now spread worldwide in a dispute that touches on everything from freedom of speech and religious tolerance to stereotyping and extremism. The Age has not published these cartoons as a matter of editorial judgement, a position supported by this newspaper's cartoonists. The Danish cartoons were neither insightful nor effective, just stereotypical smears. At the level of content, there was little justification to run them. Even given their curiosity value, such material carries a responsibility to consider whether the point of publication outweighs any likely offence. Having the freedom to publish does not mean we must publish to prove it.


Any newspaper ought to be offended, however, by the use of threats or violence to dictate what may be published; an intimidated media is no longer a free media. For this reason, media across Europe and eventually as far afield as New Zealand chose to reproduce the cartoons as an act of solidarity in the name of press freedom. Secular societies may be all but oblivious to the injunction against graven images - it is a Christian commandment, too - but Muslim outrage exploded. Embassies have been burned and citizens threatened. Economic boycotts are starting to bite. Iraq and Iran have threatened the cancellation of contracts, which include New Zealand sheep exports. These decisions to hold whole countries to account for their newspapers betray an entirely different view of the relationship between the state and the media. As a Danish Government spokesman said: "We are talking about an issue with fundamental significance to how democracies work."

Jyllands-Posten has now apologised. Editor Carsten Juste said he would not have printed the cartoons "had we known that it would lead to boycotts and Danish lives being endangered". Unfortunately, his original point about extreme reprisals has been confirmed by violence that has provided more images of the Islamic fanaticism of which many Muslims have come to despair. It is imperative that Muslim leaders reject the violent rule of the mob, just as non-Muslims need to avoid inflaming relations. As Norwegian Foreign Minister Jonas Gahr Store said: "One extreme triggers the other." The reaction to 12 obscure cartoons is evidence of a deeply damaged relationship between the West and Islam.

The Age also reported that an Australian Catholic University survey of year 10 students found more than half saw Muslims as terrorists (they also admitted knowing very little about Islam). Little wonder many Muslims see the "war on terror" as a war on them. Their community is besieged by hostility and suspicion, which helps explain why they want to make their hurt felt, as a New Zealand protest organiser said. In response to the survey, Islamic Council of Victoria board member Waleed Aly rightly said: "The only way you can combat this kind of prejudice is on a personal level." The chairman of the Ethnic Communities Council of Victoria, Phong Nguyen, stressed the need to foster "a growing, mature understanding of the world and other people".

This cuts both ways; Muslims are not the only people to have been offended, nor is theirs the only community to harbour extremists, but few others have sought such fierce retribution. The antidote to extremism is dialogue and understanding between communities - whether their values are liberal secular or devoutly religious. The Age's handling of this issue reflects a long commitment to good intercommunal relationships, which is the bedrock of Victoria's multicultural success story. This is one of the great challenges created by globalisation, which must necessarily be met at community level. Media and individuals of goodwill can have no illusions about its importance.
February 7th, 2006  
localgrizzly
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chief Bones
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SHAME SHAME SHAME ON ANYONE WHO BELIEVES THIS IS A GOOD EXAMPLE OF THE FREE PRESS. I SAY IT IS AN EXAMPLE OF EVERYTHING WHICH IS BAD.

FREEDOM OF THE PRESS ISN'T ABSOLUTE - THERE'S A HOOK - IT IS CALLED RESPONSIBILITY AND THESE NEWSPAPERS WERE ANYTHING BUT RESPONSIBLE.
I think you fail top undertand what the 1st Amendment says. Freedom of expression and freedom of the press are among the most precious things in a free society.

The same freedom that allows the press to publish articles attacking political beliefs, allows the press to attack religious and philosophical beliefs.

And personally, I do not consider the cartoons in poor taste at all! I think they're funny!

I am very pleased that the press is FINALLY willing to eschew political correctness and attack the fanatical followers of this homicidal maniac.
February 7th, 2006  
Italian Guy
 
 
I totally agree with RL. Our Foreign Minister said that "It is a strong charge, but I'm sure the governments of Iran and Syria are accomplices of these acts. How can governments like those, so much in control of whatever happens in every square inch of their countries, be caught unaware when armed crowds go and attack embassies? How can such strong governments, which often resort to use of force, be unable to counter the protests?".
February 7th, 2006  
phoenix80
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Italian Guy
I totally agree with RL. Our Foreign Minister said that "It is a strong charge, but I'm sure the governments of Iran and Syria are accomplices of these acts. How can governments like those, so much in control of whatever happens in every square inch of their countries, be caught unaware when armed crowds go and attack embassies? How can such strong governments, which often resort to use of force, be unable to counter the protests?".
True!

A single demonstration by handful of the Iranian people against the regimes of Iran & Syria will be dealt with savagely and brutally but then an army of angry people can go and torch foreign embassies in Tehran or Damascus and the govt stays quiet?

I have no doubt that these angry people are supported by terrorist regimes of Iran & Syria to distract the world from their dirty deeds.
February 8th, 2006  
bulldogg
 
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by localgrizzly
I think you fail top undertand what the 1st Amendment says. Freedom of expression and freedom of the press are among the most precious things in a free society.



I am very pleased that the press is FINALLY willing to eschew political correctness and attack the fanatical followers of this homicidal maniac.
Point one, I would counter with the following- respect for fellow human beings and their beliefs is the fundamental tenet of any society and the first amendment does not exist outside the borders of the US. You need to widen your horizons and not be so CONUS-centric in your view of the world at large.

Point two, 180 degrees from sick is still sick. Shall we also attack Jews since the writings of their religion, which Christians also share aka the Old Testament, calls for the genocide of all those who do not believe in Yahweh??
February 8th, 2006  
gladius
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bulldogg
Point one, I would counter with the following- respect for fellow human beings and their beliefs is the fundamental tenet of any society and the first amendment does not exist outside the borders of the US. You need to widen your horizons and not be so CONUS-centric in your view of the world at large.

Point two, 180 degrees from sick is still sick. Shall we also attack Jews since the writings of their religion, which Christians also share aka the Old Testament, calls for the genocide of all those who do not believe in Yahweh??
Christian beliefs being attacked by our own media isn't something new. Not only that, those genocides you speak about can't even be applied today, most all Christians even Jews will reject it outright. If your trying to make a point its simply has nothing solid behind it.

The problem is that Muslims attack Christian and Jews all the time in their media. When something is done to them they can't take it. Where is the mutual respect that should be coming from them?

Point is Muslim need to have respect for others too. They don't.