Military May Lift Ban on Women in Submarines

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http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090928/od_nm/us_submarines_women_odd_1

Mon Sep 28, 10:31 am ET



WASHINGTON (Reuters) – Top Pentagon officials are calling for an end to the U.S. military's historical ban on allowing women to serve in submarines.
Admiral Mike Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the top U.S. military officer, advocated the policy change in written congressional testimony distributed by his office to reporters on Friday.


"I believe we should continue to broaden opportunities for women. One policy I would like to see changed is the one barring (women's) service aboard submarines," Mullen said.


Navy Secretary Ray Mabus said he was "moving out aggressively on this."
"I am very comfortable addressing integrating women into the submarine force," Admiral Gary Roughead, chief of naval operations, said in a statement.


Women account for about 15 percent of the more than 336,000 members of the U.S. Navy and can serve on its surface ships. But critics have argued that submarines are different, pointing to cramped quarters where some crews share beds in shifts.


Nancy Duff Campbell, an advocate for expanding the role of women in the U.S. armed forces, said it would be easy to resolve problems associated with so-called "hot-bunking."


"They say, 'How could we have the women sleeping in the same area as men?'" said Campbell, co-president of the National Women's Law Center (NWLC).


"But they already separate where the officers sleep from the enlisted, so it's not like it can't be done."


Roughead said the problem of sorting out accommodations on the U.S. fleet of 71 submarines was not insurmountable.


Allowing women on submarines would be another step forward in expanding the role of women in the U.S. military. Last year, a woman was promoted to the rank of four-star general for the first time.


Women are still barred from traditional frontline combat roles in the U.S. military. But female soldiers often run the same risks as men in Iraq and Afghanistan, where bombings and other insurgent attacks can happen almost anywhere and target any U.S. unit.
 
Hmm........ I smell lawsuits a' plenty no matter how this ruling turns out. Should be interesting to watch.
 
Didn't know that women weren't allowed to serve in submarines, and now I read the article I realize that never seen a female in the subs... Every day you learn a something new.

And regarding the issue, at first sight I don't see any special problem on allowing them to serve.

Is there something I'm missing?
 
There are a few issues, none of them (save perhaps the last) insurmountable:

- Berthing compartments on attack subs (not so much boomers) are comparatively large. Thus, to transition one to being a female berthing, you'd have to ensure that half the enlisted crew (or so) was female.

- Heads likewise, only 2 heads + officers + CO/XO

- Nuke boats stay down long enough that the CO2 levels of the sub's atmosphere would be harmful to fetuses should a female become pregnant. In addition, Naval Reactors SOP is to not allow pregnant females around reactors. There's no good way to get someone off a sub during a patrol or deployment.
 
I've only been on a tour of one US sub in my life and from what I saw women on a sub is a train wreck waiting to happen, they wouldn't have any privacy at all
 
There will be tears and lawsuits all round before this is sorted either way, but it is my opinion that they will cut their losses severely if they put a stop to it now.

With what little knowledge I have of submarines, I seem to remember that all ORs berthing spaces are either alleyways or workspaces.

Something may be possible regarding privacy on nuclear boats, but it will come at a cost.
 
I feel that women are as competent and capable as men in nearly any role in the military.

With that said, we need to keep them out of combat because of the hormone issues. Men are by trait inclined to defend women, in some cases no matter what. That will interfere with missions and objectives. Men think like, well, men. Bring women around and that changes everything.
 
There are a few issues, none of them (save perhaps the last) insurmountable:

- Berthing compartments on attack subs (not so much boomers) are comparatively large. Thus, to transition one to being a female berthing, you'd have to ensure that half the enlisted crew (or so) was female.

- Heads likewise, only 2 heads + officers + CO/XO

- Nuke boats stay down long enough that the CO2 levels of the sub's atmosphere would be harmful to fetuses should a female become pregnant. In addition, Naval Reactors SOP is to not allow pregnant females around reactors. There's no good way to get someone off a sub during a patrol or deployment.

Interesting, thanks.

wow wow some people are really brave indeed..by just picturing in my imagination what would be like to be underwater for long time in small space etc etc I do panic and go cold sweat..LOL..but I am clastrophobic person.
 
Long as it ain't the infantry I'm good.

If their as big of a PITA in subs as they are in the MP Corps.......God help the bubble heads!
 
I somewhat agree with Hmmm. (Though I don't think women should be allowed in all aspects of military, competent or not).
 
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What those Navies* around the world who have women already serving for a while in submarines have found out about their experience having men and women together like that? Anybody knows if they have any studies about that in print? I curious now.

*"The Royal Norwegian Navy became the first navy in the world to permit female personnel to serve in submarines, appointing a female submarine captain in 1995,followed by the Royal Australian Navy (RAN) in 1998 and thereafter Canada and Spain, all operators of conventional submarines."wikipidia women in the military.
 
I feel that women are as competent and capable as men in nearly any role in the military.

With that said, we need to keep them out of combat because of the hormone issues. Men are by trait inclined to defend women, in some cases no matter what. That will interfere with missions and objectives. Men think like, well, men. Bring women around and that changes everything.


I don't think anybody on here can argue with that. Espically me, we had a few females with our unit, and whatever they worked on I had to do the CDI/QAR insp on, and it was always top notch work, and the best quality around, I feel the problem of women on subs would be the whole privacy issue, that combined with the fact that like it or not 90% of all Navy Men WILL look at whatever they can whenever they can, for as long as they can. I don't give a rats a** how much kinder and gentler the Navy has become, it will be a major issue, although I'd love to see a woman giving the order to launch torpedoes and enemy ships :)
 
Could look on the bright side. You guys know how women are at "certain times". Forget us man! May God have mercy on the enemy!
 
I'm not qualified to say one way or another on the subject of women serving in submarines. All I can say is I pity the poor SOB that's stuck in a tin can with a bunch of women for a couple months at a time. God have mercy if you tick one off! As the old saying goes, Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned.
 
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