Mexican Troops Cross Border, Hold Border Agent

DTop said:
Sure, we should wait until "somebody" issues them white flags and brings them all back from wherever they are and then discharges them and cuts the military funding to the bone again. This coming from someone who just knocked isolationism because it facilitated both world wars.
You can't have it both ways. We have the resources to protect our borders and protect our interests anywhere. We just need to use them efficiently. The borders need to be tightened up. Drug runners, illegal aliens, and terrorists all have way too easy access to the U.S..
If you want to come here, do it legally. Our borders need to be not just protected but secured.
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They should not have been sent at all, that's what I am saying. The Army fights the wars, not the NG. The NG job was to stay in Texas and protect the state.

You say we have the resources to do both but apparently we don't because BP still complains to this day that they are undermanned as does the NG and the military. The BP is a law enforcement force not a military one, it cannot be expected to protect our frontier from Mexican military opposition. If the National Guard was where it was supposed to be then maybe we wouldn't have have bribed Mexican soldiers on our territory protecting drug shipments. Hurricane Katrina was another example of why the NG should not have been sent overseas.
 
A. your getting off toppic, when you discuss the pros and cons war in iraq.

B. I believe, correct me if im wrong, that assisting the regular army in Iraq falls under the NG roles as well.

C. Law enforcement is a very general term. The nice guys(actually usually not very nice) in the picture 5.56 posted in the first page are Police officers, of the Israeli Border Guard. They belong to the Police but have M16s, M4s, M240s, Sniper Rifles and armored 4wd vehicles. An agency that is called uppon to protect the border, should be capable of handling small intrusions, even if they are made by soldier of a foreighn military. A mexican soldier with a rifle is no diffrent to handle than a mexican gang member with a rifle. You first warn and attempt to arrest, later shoot to kill, as the target is armed.

Also i believe it dosent have to come to that, cause the minute you show up with gear like that and ROEs that allow you to engage, people will not mess with you.
 
the_13th_redneck said:
Assigning an M1A2 to BP might help as well.
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Or assigning the humvees to BP instead of the Ford Explorer or Chevy Tahoe.

mmarsh said:
We would, except for the fact that *somebody* sent them to Iraq as well as the Army and most importantly the Texas National Guard whose job this should be.

"When the cats away, the mice will play" as the saying goes...

Still, even if the drug trade is good for the Mexican economy, the Mexican government is still risking a huge international incident with its northern neighbor by having its troops over the border.

Wars have gotten started that way...
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Don't forget Texas State Guard....they are assigned to the border to help out...
 
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mmarsh said:
We would, except for the fact that *somebody* sent them to Iraq as well as the Army and most importantly the Texas National Guard whose job this should be.

"When the cats away, the mice will play" as the saying goes...

Still, even if the drug trade is good for the Mexican economy, the Mexican government is still risking a huge international incident with its northern neighbor by having its troops over the border.

Wars have gotten started that way...
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You're acting like this is the first time that the National Guard has been federalized. It's not it's part of the mission. WWI,WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Gulf War all have seen the NG federalized and activated to some extent.

FWIW the guard unit's who are working on the border are also federalized. Were they under the activation of the Governor their actions and duties would be even more limited in scope.

The Texas National Guard being deployed in part has no bearing on whether or not these incursions are occurring on the border. They never maintained a permanent presence there anyway. So "the cats away" just don't hunt. None of this has one thing to do with the the war in Iraq.

This happens just like it's always happens because the US buys the OOPS! We were lost. And refuses to press the issue.

This isn't something that is a recent event. I grew up in Starr County and Hidalgo County Texas on border. Mexican Military and Police have always made incursions into the US and until something is done by our goverment they always will make incursions.
 
It seems obvious that the US has a problem with some of its southern neighbours. and from what I read, this has at least in part been encouraged by certain groups of US citizens who do not wish to lose the cheap labour that infiltrates that border.

I feel that if the US started to clean up their act on their own side of the border, the remainder of the problem would be much easier to solve. this could come out of the budgets of all affected departments, e.g. Homeland security.

It's going to end up like the Berlin Wall, but that may well be the cheapest and easiest way to go, then institute a regulated "Guest Worker" system if you must. At least that way they will pay taxes and be entitled to healthcare etc., whilst in the USA.

If what has been said here about them bleeding the country dry, is correct, you have nothing to lose and plenty to gain. Hell,... the Israelis can do it, I'm sure a country like the US could manage.
 
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800px-Korea_DMZ_sentry.jpg
 
mmarsh said:
They should not have been sent at all, that's what I am saying. The Army fights the wars, not the NG. The NG job was to stay in Texas and protect the state.

You say we have the resources to do both but apparently we don't because BP still complains to this day that they are undermanned as does the NG and the military. The BP is a law enforcement force not a military one, it cannot be expected to protect our frontier from Mexican military opposition. If the National Guard was where it was supposed to be then maybe we wouldn't have have bribed Mexican soldiers on our territory protecting drug shipments. Hurricane Katrina was another example of why the NG should not have been sent overseas.
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It may come as a surprise to you, but the National Guard has a dual mission in this country. One is as a state militia and the other is a Federal mission to supplement the regular full time military when activated. The latter mission supersedes the prior, that's the law. The Guard does many tasks but the bottom line is that the Guard is a military organization not a police force. Therefore once the Texas National Guard became activated, they ceased to be under the control of the state of Texas and became a Federal military organization, under the auspices of the Federal Government. If the Federal Government decided to send them to the moon, that's where they're supposed to be, nowhere else.
 
Just to make it clear (even though I fell into it too). The Texas Guard wouldn't have mattered ........These BP Agents were out of the Ajo Az station. There I feel better.


Thanks Top now have to worry about gettin sent to the moon. Hope the have a Lunar Deployment Medal or something!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
I wuz thinkin' more like this:
israel_wall_tower_2.jpg


Redneck, I'm not real impressed with that guard post in your post. I reckon it could be a real bummer on a stormy winter's night.
 
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In my opinion, that would depend a great deal on who you intend to talk to.

But bearing in mind the fact that the only people who could possibly actually do anything, are priced well out of your budget and already in the pockets of those hiring illegals, my real advice is to stay here and whinge to us. We can't do anything either, but at least we'll listen to you. We might even give you a pat on the back occasionally.:-D
 
senojekips said:
I wuz thinkin' more like this:


Redneck, I'm not real impressed with that guard post in your post. I reckon it could be a real bummer on a stormy winter's night.
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It's a long border. And yeah, those places get COLD. Even with an electric heater it will freeze your nuts off.
That guard post is more nicely constructed than the stuff I had to stand in (although ours was actually bulletproof). Don't know about that one in the picture though. Don't even know exactly what it's guarding. I'm assuming it's somewhere up in the DMZ though.

Personally don't see what the big deal is with the Berlin Wall. It's a wall. It sorta prevents people from going from one side to the other. What's the big deal? There's a wall here with machine guns and all and life is good.
 
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Jeez TOG, c'mon. The East Germans were only amateurs at wall building when you compare it with what the Israelis are doing. On a good day and with enough beer in, I could piddle over the Berlin wall. Given the chance, I would have been glad to try.
 
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the_13th_redneck said:
It's a long border. And yeah, those places get COLD. Even with an electric heater it will freeze your nuts off.
That guard post is more nicely constructed than the stuff I had to stand in (although ours was actually bulletproof). Don't know about that one in the picture though. Don't even know exactly what it's guarding. I'm assuming it's somewhere up in the DMZ though.
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I'd say it's certainly on the DMZ, see that little party house about 800 yards to the front across the river. I'll bet if I were given a good pair of binoculars, I would see a pair of binoculars in there looking right back at me.
 
Sometimes it's not that obvious. You can have South Korean guard houses on either side of a river or something wider.
 
The problem with walls are significant though:

1) They cost an absolute fortune to build especially along a border the size of the US/Mexico one.

2) They are damned expensive to maintain and "garrison".

3) They are completely neutralised by people tunneling underneath them, flying over top of them or floating around them.

In the long term I am not sure its a very cost effective method border control in fact it would probably be cheaper to just give every Mexican $100 a year to stay at home.

However if you have your hearts set on a wall I personally like the big concrete one or maybe a replica of Hadrian's wall.
 
Any such defense wouldn't be 100% secure in the US/Mexico border but it would make life a lot harder and sure would make a "we crossed over by accident" look like some kind of sick joke.
Hmmm... you think we can make use of some of these damned weekend warrior militia types?
 
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