McCain: European Allies Should Help Fight Taliban

To the original war...Would you have rathered us stood by and watched helplessly as our brothers and sisters were killed without provocation by the cowards who call themselves Taliban? As I recall, Europe was against us from the get-go...Which makes little sense to me, considering the original reason for the war.
 
C/1Lt Henderson said:
To the original war...Would you have rathered us stood by and watched helplessly as our brothers and sisters were killed without provocation by the cowards who call themselves Taliban? As I recall, Europe was against us from the get-go...Which makes little sense to me, considering the original reason for the war.
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I would suggest that your recollection is not that strong then, I don't recall much if any opposition to operations in Afghanistan from Europe (still it was a while ago now I may be wrong), however Europe was anti-Iraq and rightly remains so.
 
C/1Lt Henderson said:
To the original war...Would you have rathered us stood by and watched helplessly as our brothers and sisters were killed without provocation by the cowards who call themselves Taliban? As I recall, Europe was against us from the get-go...Which makes little sense to me, considering the original reason for the war.
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If Europe was as against us, I seriously doubt they would have voted to invoke article 5 of the NATO charter on 9-11...unamanousely.

Doesn't make sence does it?

Englander2

Afghanistan is not Iraq. The Taliban are a threat to everyone, including Germany. I think you might recall in the German news about the arrests of al-Qaeda cells operating there. in fact several of the 9-11 Hijackers were based from Hamburg.

You are involved whether you want to be or not.
 
I believe the only two nations to voice opposition to the invasion of Afghanistan were Afghanistan and Iraq, those were also the only two nations not to condemn Al Qaeda for the 9/11 attacks and both nations have subsequently been invaded by the United States.

Anyways, as for McCain calling for the European allies to do more in Afghanistan, you guys don't need to feel left out, he says the same thing about the United States.
 
sunb! said:
I would like to know what countries you are addressing here, Padre... Please provide some sources to back up your statements of Europe not participating and have in mind participation is much more than military troops and figures. Europe is much more than Poland, England and Italy and prior the next time you call my country selfish please look up our military history from 1945 until today.
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I was generalising about the European civilian population's attitude who increasingly are less ultruistic about Iraq. I was not referring so much to NATO or European governments such as England which against its people's wishes is helping in Iraq or the former Spainish government.

I certainly wouldn't criticise Norway regarding Afghanistan. That/your country has my respect. I suppose my comments are more to do with Iraq and therefore may be off topic regarding the above article on Afghanistan. Still, it is interesting which European countries came to the rescue in Iraq and which one's didn't.

I am one of those people who viewed Saddam as just as great a threat to international security as the Taliban were / are.
 
mmarsh said:
Gator

Thats only Killed in Action. (actually the number is closer to 1.5). But its 7 Million if you count the Wounded and the Missing. I always considered Wounded and Missing as Casaulties of war as well. I understand what you meant, what I am saying is that the mentality is earlier that 1966, that it started in 1918 and has continued ever since. That is why they were defeated in both 1940 and in Vietnam. Their unwillingness to use force when necessary has cost them dearly. The good news is that since the Gulf War they have been slowly regaining confidence.

As for NATO you are mistaken. While a member of NATO, France no longer participates in the NATO military. Technically the military is independent although joint military exercises are very common. It still remains the 2nd largest military force in Europe (after the UK, which is slightly larger).

As for pulling its own weight, Gulf War, Bosnia, Lebanon, various African countries and as I mentioned it is by my count the 3rd largest force in Afghanistan (almost 2000, with another 2500 on the water).

The only war it passed on was Iraq, which was not a NATO operation. Turns out they were right to do so. Had we listen to the French (and Germans) we wouldn't be in the pickle we are in now. Here is what many people don't understand: NATO is not under the thumb of the USA (or any other nation). Just because 1 member gets into a scrap doesn't mean EVERY member has to join in, unless a NATO member is attacked. We were attacked on 9-11 NATO (France included) send force (other other types of aid). Iraq did not attack us, hence France and most other Nation countries decided to stay out.
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Last I heard the Canucks along with the Netherlands are running the Afghan Op now, with the USA of course. Now, I have to ask myself if France was given a Command in the Afghan Operation, would France be a bigger player in the game?

I believe the trouble with France is, if they are not calling the shots they do not like to play the game at all, which cannot be the case with NATO, seeing how a United States 4 Star is always placed in charge, and subordinate commands rotate.

Not saying if the USA was not in charge of things that we would go all out, but there can be only one king of the mountain.
 
Okay, this is kinda off topic and i'm gonna sound like an analy retentive ****** but i gotta clarify this whole "England" issue!

Great Britain does not equal England!

Great Britain equals England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland!
(Great Britain also equals Britain equals United Kingdom as well just to confuse things)

You cannot refer to an English government, you can refer to the government of Great Britain, you can refer to the devolved assemblies within Great Britain as well.


Anyway, rant over, back on topic!

I agree that more troops should be sent to afghanistan, the job really needs to be done there, the country deserves stability after all its been through. If they can accomplish this Nato can give themselves a well deserved pat on the back.

To quote Eddie Izzard "The French can be a little French at times" Whichever way you look at things the French government is very adept at winding people up but aside from that they have a very independent streak in them which can be grudgingly admired. Fair play to it not participating in Iraq as well.
 
And let's clarify something for you, until you adopt a system that makes sense to the rest of the world we will continue to interchange the words English/British/UK without knowing that they all three mean something different. As far as most of the world is concerced England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland are essentially states/provinces of the United Kingdom. :p
 
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Damien435

Its actually simple.

1. Never refer to a Scot (or an Irishman or a Australian/New Zealander) as being English, wars have fought for less. It isn't pretty. I speak from experience, just don't do it.
 
Bloody Hell, don´t they all have freckles, red hair, milky skin and get absolutly toasted when they hit the sun in Ibiza? So in my opinion we can certainly interchange names! Just my tuppence worth..... but it is off topic indeed :)!
 
jequirity said:
Okay, this is kinda off topic and i'm gonna sound like an analy retentive ****** but i gotta clarify this whole "England" issue!

Great Britain does not equal England!

Great Britain equals England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland!
(Great Britain also equals Britain equals United Kingdom as well just to confuse things)

You cannot refer to an English government, you can refer to the government of Great Britain, you can refer to the devolved assemblies within Great Britain as well.


Anyway, rant over, back on topic!
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English government, English government, English government, English government, English government, English government.................

Jacobites Rule ! :horsie:
 
Padre said:
English government, English government, English government, English government, English government, English government.................

Jacobites Rule ! :horsie:
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Try running that line in Hell's Kitchen in NYC on Saint Paddy's Day. I can't think of a faster method of suicide. :wink:
 
Damien435 said:
I believe the only two nations to voice opposition to the invasion of Afghanistan were Afghanistan and Iraq, those were also the only two nations not to condemn Al Qaeda for the 9/11 attacks and both nations have subsequently been invaded by the United States.

Anyways, as for McCain calling for the European allies to do more in Afghanistan, you guys don't need to feel left out, he says the same thing about the United States.
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Um didn't true Afghans welcome the invasion to rid them of the Taliban...Pretty sure the "Afghan Northern Alliance" was all about it....
 
Padre said:
It's called ingratitude and selfishness. Commendably, Poland and some in England and Italy however do not have short memories.
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It's the pot calling the kettle black....They say Americans are arrogant....

pssssssssssssssssssssssssssssh
 
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