Marines? Simply Mindless Killing Machines?

As I've read through more about this issue, I must say that I am quite impressed with the array of insightful comments that have popped up since my post. And I also agree that the article was very one-sided and as biased as Tom DeLay's speeches-- it gave not even a breath to what one of the real roots of the problem was, which was that the recruit made the wrong decision of joining the Marines for a half-a$$ed reason -- college money. I mean c'mon, yeah, maybe that extra college money is a good thing so you don't have to stay at Uncle Ben's farm in Montana, but every other branch offers the same kind of monetary benefit. And plus, how is that reason alone going to motivate you through extremely strenuous and the physically demanding stress that Marine Boot Camp puts you through? It's tough $hit through what all the recruits at Parris Island have to go through, but it's not impossible. Personally I probably can't run even a mile at B.M.T. thinking about me doing this for college money alone. I would be joining the Marines for the character and career opportunies you get out of it, the intangible reasons.
 
the death is tragic and the fact that because they see a DI having a go at the kid they immediately think its a suspicious death?? what the heck?? its completely ludicrous to even suspect that there was any foul play involved. the marine corp haven't been around for so long because they kill applicants they dont want joining, discipline is strongly instilled during training, right?

yet another example of why what happens in the military should stay in the military and should not be bought to the eyes of civilians, they have no idea what it is like and cannont judge people who are in a position that they have not experienced. the training is tough, it has to be to produce recruits of the highest quality. Im sure DI's pick on recruits and make the training hell for them, they have to as the recruit more than anything has to want will all thier heart to succeed, anything less would be unnacceptible to the MC (marine corps ;) im sure they all have the same standards) having the fitness, having the leadership potential, having the initiative, they are well and good but you must want the Beret (i know the Royal Marines have a green beret, does the USMC have berets, if so what color?) and they have to be prepared to put up with everything that is thrown at them in order to achieve it
 
On the subject of "college money" being the wrong reason to go into the service.

The US Army's own internal statistics cite that the primary motivating reason that people join the army is economic, at 60% of the people who enlist.
 
you have to wonder about the job rates and everything and are goverments doing enough to give people the chance to work if national pride and the desire to be one of the best is no longer the primary motivation for joining the military.
 
Whispering Death said:
On the subject of "college money" being the wrong reason to go into the service.

The US Army's own internal statistics cite that the primary motivating reason that people join the army is economic, at 60% of the people who enlist.
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Yes and there are places for these people. Desk work at various offices etc. and also at supply centers. Also other jobs like cooks, nurses etc.
But when you join the Marines, you're going through tougher training than regular Army boot. Also you've increased the chances of you being assigned to a combat unit.
I think it's a good deal if people who want college money to do these non-combat tasks in the military. It fills up the jobs that guys who want to fight want to avoid.
I'd think the Air Force and Army will have a lot to offer for these people. And Navy as long as they stay off the ships.
 
The other branches don't need 10%ers either. If you're only there for college money, with no regard for what you're doing, stay home. Joining for college money and having pride and drive to excel is perfectly acceptable.
 
The video shows what used to be called a "reality check". The Recruit appears to have been stepping between a Drill Instructor and a CWSSI. The Recruit gets a forearm shot and taken by the stacking swivel for his lapse in judgement. Was the DI wrong? Yes according to the training doctorine in place it is considered wrong. Was it the reason that the recruit drowned 36 hours later? I doubt it. The DI payed for his thump therepy, the OIC and SNCOIC of the CWSU payed for the drowning. It was an unfortunate incident. But Marines die in training not just in boot camp, in the fleet, in the wing and in the MOS schools. Military training is inherently dangerous.

Mindless killers? No. The Marine Corps trains Warriors. They Train individuals to follow orders, make descisions in tough enviroments, and conduct themselves professionally.Yes they schooled in the art of war. War means killing. Mindless? No I don't think so.
 
This whole subject is very disturbin. For one, people die in trainin accidents in every branch of the service. The only reason this caught so much attention is because of the timin of it, durin a war. Also, due to the "history" of The Marines. Marines are known as hard tough mean people, this does not bother them. It was unfortunate that this happened, but it was not on purpose, the DI was doin what all Boot Camp Instructors would have done, and it was turned into a personal assault on this kid.

As far as mindless, you call us mindless I call us efficient. Commitment, loyalty, pride, Esprit De Corps, however you call it, we are trained to handle situations that normal people would never be able to handle. Mindless no, dedicated yes.
 
As stated above, training is meant to be tough. Also, sometimes yes, Marines do become violent, this is a Marine's function as well as a Marine. A Marine or any other military service is to protect the interests of their respective country when all diplomatic services have been exhausted. If a serviceman is not trained to kill, he or she does not serve much of a purpose then.

Edit:: 03 you are right. Never look at any person like a machine.
 
thegrinch073 said:
Also, sometimes yes, Marines do become killing machines, this is a Marine's function.
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No. I'll take exception to that. Marines are not machines. They are men and women who are trained to defend their country. They are not mindless unfeeling equipment that can be fired and forgot.
 
The other branches don't need 10%ers either. If you're only there for college money, with no regard for what you're doing, stay home. Joining for college money and having pride and drive to excel is perfectly acceptable.
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Charge that's well said. Don't go into the army if your just up for benefits and tuition. You can do it for that but also for the determination and strength to serve your people and country with pride.
 
Thanks, RankIt


Also, sometimes yes, Marines do become killing machines, this is a Marine's function. A Marine or any other military service is to protect the interests of their respective country when all diplomatic services have been exhausted. If a serviceman is not trained to kill, he or she does not serve much of a purpose then.
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I suspect, grinch, when you get to Norwich, and should you be able to last there, you will come to see the folly of those words. As it appears I will be teaching there this Fall, I'll make damn sure you do if you step into my classroom. People are not machines and although we are trained to kill, we serve many more purposes than that that are quite valuable indeed.
 
To further expand on the valuable purposes served by the Military in general and the Marine Corps in particular grinch I will give you two of many examples of the Corps doing more than waging total war.

At the conclusion of Gulf War I elements of the 5th Marine Regt and attachments formerly Task Force Ripper. Were diverted to the Indian Ocean to aid in diaster relief in Operation Sea Angel. These Marines delivered water, food, medical aid and assistance to the population of Bangladesh. Marine Helo crews flew countless relief and resupply missions, Medevacs and inserted Navy Medical and Civilian Medical teams and aid workers into remote areas and kept them resupplied.

Marine and Navy Boat crews took supplies into areas accessible only by small craft. Marine Grunts, Tankers, Trackers, Supply Clerks, Cannon Cockers, Pencil Pushers and Communicators formed ad-hoc shore parties to off load, stage and deliver Supplies. Water Purifaction Specialists kept the water flowing and Combat and Heavy engineers started to clear and rebuild. Not exactly a bunch of killing machines.


The Marines who landed in Somolia for Operation Restore Hope were not there to target Aidid or the Clans. Their Mission was to safe guard relief efforts and assist in rebuilding the infrastructure of a country in chaos. The ROE's were restrictive and the amount of combat minimal.
 
we dont only to global op's like what 03 says, we also do community projects like city cleanups, setup Special Olympics and Toys for Tots. we are very much into community services and helping people and not just on the battlefield.
 
Yes yes yes absolutely both 03 and Milidar are totally right. They do a lot of non-combat missions, it's just that the media ignore it.
 
The US Marine is a professional.

Unfortunately accidents and mistakes do happen in training in any of the armed serviced around the world.

I think some people have watched FULL METAL JACKET too often.
 
Baby700 said:
The US Marine is a professional.

Unfortunately accidents and mistakes do happen in training in any of the armed serviced around the world.

I think some people have watched FULL METAL JACKET too often.
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I agree.
 
just today we had Marines running an orienteering course today, who had just gotten back from Iraq and taught us basic medical stuff, about camouflage, gave us MRE's to try (delicious :) ), and let us exercise with them and they were basically a lot like us just grown up and had been to war, a lot of them said that they were going to come visit our school.

Marines do their job when they are at war, and are basically normal people when they are back home
my 2 cents :D
 
I think it is not so smart for anyone to say that anybody is an anydoing machine. Marines (not only US marines) are humans and like all humans they need a sense of identity, a sense of belonging and a sense of achievement. Problem is that those needs are used by some in order to persuade the (whatever nationality) marines or other armed humans to do deeds they woulnd't do, were they detached from the sense of belonging and achievement their group offers them.
 
Well it's a part of being a professional.
When you are armed by your country, it is your duty to defend what they tell you to defend, kill who they tell you to kill, stand where they tell you to stand etc.
I guess a civilian equivilent is if you are a courtroom lawyer (litigation is it called?) and you've just been told by your firm that you will defend a man regardless of what he did or didn't do. It's your job. You have to do it.

What's in your mind does come 2nd, but as for killing machine, that depends on the mission that's been handed over doesn't it? Mindless is quite unfair as you do have to mind Rules of Engagement etc. and not to mention, if you have command authority, you're going to have to make decisions to make sure the order works.
 
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