Marine Killing

Posted this before but i think it got deleted, I think was purely a judgement call, we were not there and its easy to judge or comment from hindsight, did any of you guys see the Iraqi raise his hands in surrender? raising your hands is universally known as an act of surrender right? you don't even have to say a single word and you can presume that the other guy knows what you mean. and besides, what was he doing in there anyway? he was right inside a warzone! operations were going on for days, he was either a combatant or at least a supporter of the terrorist.
 
I've already spoken my peace on this topic, though I think we should make a topic about wether we should even take EPOWs. Like for example at the begining of OIF2 when a lot of the Iraqi soliders were surrending, you know we couldn't process all of those, what did we do. We took there weapons, FED them, gave them clothes, provided a shower, and let them go on there way after 24 hours, and now we are fighting them again. Don't read this wrong, I'm not suggesting that we shoot surrending soliders, what I'm suggesting, is not to process them in the first place. When fighting in close quarters in urban combat, why take EPOW's unless they're high value targets? It just increases the danger our troops are in, and puts a lot more pressure on MP's. Anyway that's a little off topic, but not really since a lot of civilans are bashing the Marine for not taking the insurgent prisoner.

Oh my main reson for posting again was to give the link to the video of the Marine killing, that I downloaded. This is the uncensored version, but it really isn't all that bad, in my opinon. Here's the link to view it online, but you can download it at datter.com
http://davidtitus.free.fr/video/fallujah_shooting.mov
 
"When fighting in close quarters in urban combat, why take EPOW's unless they're high value targets? It just increases the danger our troops are in, and puts a lot more pressure on MP's."

To be a human, not an uncivilized barbarian. Of course capturing an enemy soldier is always risky and causes more work for MPs and supply units.

"This is the uncensored version, but it really isn't all that bad, in my opinon."

Think about a situation where enemy would think the same way and shoot you like a dog.
 
Yes you try to take EPW's. Operative word being try.

The hard cold truth of the matter is this, and I'm sorry if it dispells any noble or warm and fuzzy notions that anyone may have but..............

You and your fire team come first. If you have an inkling that the potential EPW presents a danger to you or your fellow Marines they become a target to be engaged and eliminated.

Welcome to the real world it ain't humane and it ain't pretty.
 
03USMC said:
Yes you try to take EPW's. Operative word being try.

The hard cold truth of the matter is this, and I'm sorry if it dispells any noble or warm and fuzzy notions that anyone may have but..............

You and your fire team come first. If you have an inkling that the potential EPW presents a danger to you or your fellow Marines they become a target to be engaged and eliminated.

Welcome to the real world it ain't humane and it ain't pretty.
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Unfortunately that is the hard cold fact in this world. Wars of gentlemen have disappeared if there even have ever been any. Taking POWs makes things too complex but killing unarmed broken and surrendering enemy soldier should be avoided _if possible_.
 
Taking POWs makes things too complex but killing unarmed broken and surrendering enemy soldier should be avoided _if possible_.
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Actually, killing broken and surrendering enemy soldier also would makes things complex outside the battlefield.
 
We took plenty of prisoners in the first go round over there. They surrendered in droves. Yes it made logistics rough. We also had pseudo surrenders and yes we engaged when we felt threatened.

The crux of the problem is this. Will I wait to take fire or a grenade if I feel threatened by a wounded enemy.

No I will engage.
 
Kane said:
Actually, killing broken and surrendering enemy soldier also would makes things complex outside the battlefield.
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What exactly made you come to the conclusion that the terrorist in the video was "surrendering?" From what I saw, the one who surrendered survived.
 
What exactly made you come to the conclusion that the terrorist in the video was "surrendering?" From what I saw, the one who surrendered survived.
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First of all, I wasn't referring about the video. I was generalizing from history.

And also, when I meant "outside the battlefield" i literally meant outside the battlefield. In my opinion, there are two worlds, the battlefield and the outside world.
 
03USMC said:
We took plenty of prisoners in the first go round over there. They surrendered in droves. Yes it made logistics rough. We also had pseudo surrenders and yes we engaged when we felt threatened.

"The crux of the problem is this. Will I wait to take fire or a grenade if I feel threatened by a wounded enemy."

Difficult or less difficult decicions. What kind of wounded enemy you mean threatening? How can you recognize a dangerous wounded from undangerous? Have you enough time to do that?
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Furitive movements, sudden movements, lack of response to commands. Will all get you engaged.
 
Difficult or less difficult decicions. What kind of wounded enemy you mean threatening? How can you recognize a dangerous wounded from undangerous?
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The insurgents were putting their hands behind that caused suspicion. I think it's anxiety and fear that made them pull the trigger.

And also, I don't think these guys know english when responding to commands.
 
03USMC said:
Furitive movements, sudden movements, lack of response to commands. Will all get you engaged.
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Yes, that is self defence. But with islamic fanatics never knows what they are up to do. They can just say Allah u akhbar and surprise with blowing themselves up and take with all people nearby. They don't care because they go to paradise.

"lack of response to commands."

If they don't understand your commands? Do you understand arabic, russian or chinese commands?
 
EuroSpike said:
If they don't understand your commands? Do you understand arabic, russian or chinese commands?
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I'd learn right quick if an arab, Russian, or Chinaman had a weapon on me. :lol:

Commands are not always verbal, Euro.
 
We were taught basic phrases and had members of the Kuwaiti AF attached to us.

In Panama they had no problem understanding my Spanish.
 
Redneck said:
EuroSpike said:
If they don't understand your commands? Do you understand arabic, russian or chinese commands?
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I'd learn right quick if an arab, Russian, or Chinaman had a weapon on me. :lol:

Commands are not always verbal, Euro.
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Yes but you see only a enemy pointing you with his weapon and you know only that he wants you do something but not exactly what and if you do something wrong, his answer is to shoot.

Another way chinamen, russians and all other in the same gategory if they don't shoot, they just grab and force you to do what they want. Certainly your watch, money, rings and other a bit valuable found from pockets changes it's owner immediately. No need for words. Maybe it is better not to try that experience anyway.
 
EuroSpike said:
Yes but you see only a enemy pointing you with his weapon and you know only that he wants you do something but not exactly what and if you do something wrong, his answer is to shoot.
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The only thing I could do "wrong" if he's pionting a weapon at me is not engage him.
 
03USMC said:
EuroSpike said:
Yes but you see only a enemy pointing you with his weapon and you know only that he wants you do something but not exactly what and if you do something wrong, his answer is to shoot.
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The only thing I could do "wrong" if he's pionting a weapon at me is not engage him.
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I agree, but if the engaging would be a suicide? Magazine empty, weapon malfunctioned or distance to enemy so long you can't reach him without getting shot? Then you would be on the role of threating potential POW, wounded or not. Bad luck.
 
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