As many here know my views on firearm ownership

5.56X45mm

5.56X45mm

Milforum Mac Daddy
The event in Newtown CT is a horrid crime and sadly there are twenty seven families suffering during this holiday season. Adam Lanza was a coward.... nothing more and nothing less. He acts were not rational in any manner and sadly millions of Americans will be punished by his actions.

America does not have a firearm problem. We have a mental health problem. It is swept under the rug and not discussed. We have no social network to treat and care those with mental illness.

Our schools are not secured and that is a crime itself. Those in office wish to disarm the law abiding public and have "Gun Free Zones". Criminals do not follow the law; a gun free zone or the outlawing of arms will not prevent crime nor monsters from harming us and ours. I will gladly get rid off all my firearms and other weapons when those in office and those that wish to disarm get rid of their security details and firearms. Mayor Bloomberg wants me disarmed yet he has a NY City Concealed Carry Permit and a 24 hour NYPD security detail. Mrs. Feinsten of California has a CCP and a US Capitol Police security detail. President Obama had a USSS detail and wants to disarm me.... if they and their kind wish to have me disarmed then they must be disarmed also.... they are not more important or special then I m.

Our schools are defenseless for the most part... if a responsible adult wishes to carry a firearm for self defense they should. They seek the training and go through the background checks for said permits. For when trouble happens... cop is always minutes away. But as always these horrid acts occur within a small amount of time. Police are a reactive force and not a preventive one. We trust teachers and school administrators with our most important resource... our children. Yet folks don't think we can trust them with a firearm.

The American public is voting with their wallets this very moment. They are buying every single rifle, pistol, magazine, and round of ammunition that can be found. They are telling those in office that they will not be disarmed and that this horrid event will not be used to pass incedious acts that would strip freedom from society.

A real answer to these problems are simple. Arm and harden our schools, bring back public health centers and keep them locked up, and lastly keep our rights and freedoms secure.

God help those in need and may he devil punish those that pray on the weak.
 
Did we really need another topic?

Your country has a metal health problem and a firearms problem.

The fact that you require your schools to have armed protection tells me all I need to know. What a sad state of affairs.
 
Capt Frogman said:
Did we really need another topic?

Your country has a metal health problem and a firearms problem.

The fact that you require your schools to have armed protection tells me all I need to know. What a sad state of affairs.
Click to expand...

In many ways he is right, guns in the hands of sane people are not a problem and it doesn't matter what type, shape or how many a sane person has they are perfectly safe but what the pro-gun group has failed to grasp is the reality of the world they want to create, I do not understand why people want their kids to go to school in locked down facilities with armed guards and live a life that is essentially under the gun from cradle to grave, to me that would be the most horrible existence I could imagine and I certainly wouldn't want that existence for my kids.

It seems to me that pro-gun groups have simply given up on trying to fix the problems of a failing social system and its ensuing mental health issues and simply decided to move to the worse case scenario, a world where everyone is armed to the teeth, there is next to no social interaction due to the fear that your neighbor has a bigger gun than you do and your kids are home schooled because it is preferable to sending them to a maximum security school and you end up with a nation of socially inept shut ins who then create you next generation of shooters.

As I have said before it is like parking the ambulance at the bottom of the cliff, but as that wont stop the problem the next logical step is to build a hospital at the bottom of the cliff quickly followed by a mortuary to save time.

The key to this problem is many fold but in my opinion the answer is not more guns or less guns but rather a focus on systems to stop crazies getting guns and a lot of work on addressing the social issues facing the country.

**And I agree this thread should be merged with the other on the issue**
 
Last edited:
MontyB said:
I do not understand why people want their kids to go to school in locked down facilities with armed guards and live a life that is essentially under the gun from cradle to grave, to me that would be the most horrible existence I could imagine and I certainly wouldn't want that existence for my kids.

you do and your kids are home schooled because it is preferable to sending them to a maximum security school and you end up with a nation of socially inept shut ins who then create you next generation of shooters.
Click to expand...
The High and Middle schools here have had School Resourse Officers for a long time. They are no more "locked down" by the presence of one SRO any more than the city is locked down by the existance of the city's police force. Home schooling has exploded because systems nationwide are infested with Liberals who indoctrinate kids with silly notions like socialism/communism is good & a company making a profit is evil.
 
George said:
The High and Middle schools here have had School Resourse Officers for a long time. They are no more "locked down" by the presence of one SRO any more than the city is locked down by the existance of the city's police force. Home schooling has exploded because systems nationwide are infested with Liberals who indoctrinate kids with silly notions like socialism/communism is good & a company making a profit is evil.
Click to expand...

Ah, neatly side stepped (again) Monty's point. Clever.
 
Capt Frogman said:
Ah, neatly side stepped (again) Monty's point. Clever.
Click to expand...

Not really, I think it is the perfect example as to why these shootings happen.

Now we are down to the problem being liberals and communists, as opposed to facing the reality that the country (as most countries mine included) is in the process of social anarchy.

The problems that are emerging now are in my opinion caused by the gradual move of nations away from personal responsibility we now have generations of kids who have grown up in the knowledge that they are untouchable and now no longer recognise that actions have consequences and we have parents that no longer believe it is their job to raise their kids it is the role of school, neighbour, authorities, street, cat or anyone but them.

This is not helped by the ever growing stresses of every day life, more often than not if a kid has two parents both are working longer and longer hours and
if they only have one you have a whole raft of other issues to deal with.

I honestly can not understand how people can think that adding more guns to this mix is somehow going to be beneficial to me the answer is simple:
1) Make the laws you already have work as clearly they don't.
2) Improve the social aspects of the nation and you will improve the mental health of the nation, this does not mean more handouts it means actually fixing problems rather than politicising them.
 
They will have to arm their Firemen now!.
When are you guys, going to pull your heads out of the sand.
 
Yep and in my opinion that is ambulance at the bottom of the cliff thinking.

Who knows maybe it will work even though it didn't at Columbine, but once schools become to well guarded for these nuts to shoot up where will they go next playgrounds maybe so we will need armed guards for those as well, malls maybe so beef up the security there, how about crowded intersections clearly they will need to be armed up the key is clearly stop handing out certificates for leaving kindergarten and just hand out 9mm's for personal protection.

Of course I am sure George wont mind the extra taxes to cover the cost and extra shootings that will come from mis-identifications and just general screw ups but hey at least the US will be as safe as other great nations like Iraq, Somalia, Afghanistan and it will be able to emulate the wild west on a daily basis.
 
Armed guards aren't the answer anyway.

Columbine High School in Colorado had armed law enforcement agents on call when two teenagers carried out a shooting spree in 1999. The agents were unable to prevent the deaths of 12 students and one teacher. They were "outgunned by the assault weapons wielded by the two teens".

Similarly, Virginia Tech had armed police on campus who were unable to prevent the deaths of 32 people in a mass shooting in 2007.

America's problem with gun violence is not confined to schools. In August, in Wisconsin, six worshipers were killed at a Sikh temple. A month earlier, in Colorado, 12 movie goers were killed and 58 injured at a midnight showing of the Batman film The Dark Knight Rises. There were also multiple gun deaths at an army base, shopping malls, a civic centre and a political event in Tucson.
 
Capt Frogman said:
Indeed!

What's your solution for the 4 firemen (2 dead) shot today then George?
Click to expand...

Well first off you replace that pointless fire hose with a chain gun as helping others by putting out fires is nothing more than a liberal/communist idea, fires should only be put out after they property owner has paid for the service.
 
MontyB said:
Not really, I think it is the perfect example as to why these shootings happen.

Now we are down to the problem being liberals and communists, as opposed to facing the reality that the country (as most countries mine included) is in the process of social anarchy.

The problems that are emerging now are in my opinion caused by the gradual move of nations away from personal responsibility we now have generations of kids who have grown up in the knowledge that they are untouchable and now no longer recognise that actions have consequences and we have parents that no longer believe it is their job to raise their kids it is the role of school, neighbour, authorities, street, cat or anyone but them.

This is not helped by the ever growing stresses of every day life, more often than not if a kid has two parents both are working longer and longer hours and
if they only have one you have a whole raft of other issues to deal with.
.
Click to expand...
One example is "moral relativism" a group of students would be given a hypothetical situation. They would be tasked to come up with "the" answer, but...regardless of what answer they came up with it had to be cosidered the right one, even if immoral or wrong, & the teacher wouldn't be allowed to point out what the right & moral answer should have been.

Capt Frogman said:
Well he doesn't seem to think that armed guards outside schools is an issue but chose to defend it instead....
Click to expand...
Presence of SROs can't hurt, but still would go for school employee with CCW being able to carry @ work, if they can be trusted to carry everywhere else, why not @ a school?

MontyB said:
Who knows maybe it will work even though it didn't at Columbine, but once schools become to well guarded for these nuts to shoot up where will they go next playgrounds maybe so we will need armed guards for those as well, malls maybe so beef up the security there, how about crowded intersections clearly they will need to be armed up the key is clearly stop handing out certificates for leaving kindergarten and just hand out 9mm's for personal protection.

Of course I am sure George wont mind the extra taxes to cover the cost and extra shootings that will come from mis-identifications and just general screw ups but hey at least the US will be as safe as other great nations like Iraq, Somalia, Afghanistan and it will be able to emulate the wild west on a daily basis.
Click to expand...
Issuing CCWs doesn't raise taxes & we have seen reduced crime rates where available. and despite the "Wild west" angle that anti-gun types always spew, it hasn't happened as a result of CCW, Nn the Citys where young black punks carry illegally and shoot w/o any concern for anybody is the only places close to WWW situation.

Capt Frogman said:
Armed guards aren't the answer anyway.

Columbine High School in Colorado had armed law enforcement agents on call when two teenagers carried out a shooting spree in 1999. The agents were unable to prevent the deaths of 12 students and one teacher. They were "outgunned by the assault weapons wielded by the two teens".

Similarly, Virginia Tech had armed police on campus who were unable to prevent the deaths of 32 people in a mass shooting in 2007.

America's problem with gun violence is not confined to schools. In August, in Wisconsin, six worshipers were killed at a Sikh temple. A month earlier, in Colorado, 12 movie goers were killed and 58 injured at a midnight showing of the Batman film The Dark Knight Rises. There were also multiple gun deaths at an army base, shopping malls, a civic centre and a political event in Tucson.
Click to expand...
1. Armed guards & the Police are a reactive element, can only deter. All of these places you mention are declared "Gun Free Zones" obviously they are perfect places to attack, disarmed targets. The cops that responded at Colombine stood around establishing a peremiter to keep the perps from escaping, lesson learned was to go in after them as cops arive.

Capt Frogman said:
Indeed!

What's your solution for the 4 firemen (2 dead) shot today then George?
Click to expand...
How many billions is spent by the Dept of Defence & the Terrorists still brought down the Twin Towers? can't forsee every possibility.
 
MontyB said:
Not really, I think it is the perfect example as to why these shootings happen.

Now we are down to the problem being liberals and communists, as opposed to facing the reality that the country (as most countries mine included) is in the process of social anarchy.

The problems that are emerging now are in my opinion caused by the gradual move of nations away from personal responsibility we now have generations of kids who have grown up in the knowledge that they are untouchable and now no longer recognise that actions have consequences and we have parents that no longer believe it is their job to raise their kids it is the role of school, neighbour, authorities, street, cat or anyone but them.

This is not helped by the ever growing stresses of every day life, more often than not if a kid has two parents both are working longer and longer hours and
if they only have one you have a whole raft of other issues to deal with.

I honestly can not understand how people can think that adding more guns to this mix is somehow going to be beneficial to me the answer is simple:
1) Make the laws you already have work as clearly they don't.
2) Improve the social aspects of the nation and you will improve the mental health of the nation, this does not mean more handouts it means actually fixing problems rather than politicizing them.
Click to expand...

And in the case of Adam Lanza, I think the parent is directly at fault. Who in their right mind teaches a mentally disturbed person with fits of anger how to use a assault rifle and makes these weapons easily accessible? Not too mention the mother's extremely paranoid view of the world that was bound to influence her mentally unstable son. Just how brainless is that?

We do have a problem with guns in this country. But the problem is who gets access to them. Its is far too easy for criminals, the insane, and frankly general morons (plenty of those in the USA) to get weapons. That is where the focus should be, not on banning any type of weapon. The 1994 Assault gun ban was pretty useless as the wording made it easy to avoid. Besides, the real killer is the USA are handguns not semi-autos.

The only thing I think should be banned are high capacity mags (except for police and military), yes they seem cool, but as I see absolutely no use for them other to commit mass murder in civilian hands.
 
I am not certain I agree with the ban on high capacity mags either as it really does nothing useful:
1) The time it takes to change a magazine is negligible.
2) The key is to find ways of preventing the first shot not the last.

Certainly in the Lanza case you can only assume he was a complete nutter and I agree that given his mothers views on the world I am not sure she should have had access to firearms either but this only indicates what we already know and that whatever laws you have in place currently are not working but then the fact that I can buy a weapon in the US without any problem as a foreigner should indicate how ineffective firearms laws are there.
 
I have not read all the posting here, I am sure this has already been said - I am pro gun but I am in agreement on making changes..

there is no need for 50 round extended pistol magazines sold to the public.

there is no need for 50 round+ drum magazines sold to the public.

there is no need for a Mac-10 type weapon to be sold to the public.

to have an M-14/FNFAL, etc? I can see limiting the capacity to 10 rounds

the same for the AR's (which I think is an excellent varmint rifle

an Uzi? No, or any like weapons

I agree with the magazine argument - except less would possibly be killed if the capacity were limited - but close quarter assault weapons have no place in the general populous or easily obtained.

I've had opportunity to play with most NATO and WARSAW Pact weapons... had a ball shooting such from dawn to dusk but I can see not allowing many to be had.

that little soap box having been said I reiterate once again

only a fool blames the tool.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top