Mandatory Military Service a good idea or a bad one?

Your comment that there will be an overflowing number of recruits after a major crisis, didn't pan out after the Twin Towers attack. Yes there were a few volunteers .. BUT .. it wasn't the tide you prognosticated. Military volunteerism is down .. the last recruiter I talked to, said there was talk of lowering the requirements for recruits.

Don't know about you .. but, that says a lot to me (considering the number of men/women that are out of work).

Today's society is not as pro-military as it was during past periods of crisis. A barometer of that, can be drawn from the fact that military men/women serving oversees, are serving their fifth, sixth and seventh tours.

Just what I have been trying to tell people for years! Thank you
 
Your comment that there will be an overflowing number of recruits after a major crisis, didn't pan out after the Twin Towers attack. Yes there were a few volunteers .. BUT .. it wasn't the tide you prognosticated. Military volunteerism is down .. the last recruiter I talked to, said there was talk of lowering the requirements for recruits.

Don't know about you .. but, that says a lot to me (considering the number of men/women that are out of work).

Today's society is not as pro-military as it was during past periods of crisis. A barometer of that, can be drawn from the fact that military men/women serving oversees, are serving their fifth, sixth and seventh tours.


That's the point I was trying to make, perhaps I didn't word it well. I was simply pointing out that the volunteerisms of the past are not always what they seem, and don't count on the recruiting lines to fill out indefinitely during a time of crisis. WWII was a good example, for 6 months after Pearl Harbor, the recruiting lines were flooded. After that they thinned and the draft went into full effect after all the guys who couldn't wait to get in volunteered.
 
I've been thinking about it lately. As you all know I live in Canada. Second largest nation with a ridiculously small population. Although we don't have any homeland threats at the moment, many old threats could arise very easily (the indian group who bombed that one plane, quebec seperatists, terrorists). I really think that Canada should have mandatory military service due to it's huge border and small population. There's many pros and cons to this but I think the pros outweigh the cons.

I think we would have a much better educated population because of all these people who bash our armed forces would understand what the men and women in uniform are going through so the'd shut their mouths.
It'd open doors to many youth who don't know what to do with their life (ie a career in the armed forces).
It'd toughen people up (ie seperating the men from the boys).
Provide money to people who need it.
Make the population more patriotic (I see too many people who hate their nation).

Now I'm not just talking about solely Canada having this, but I'm talking about other countries as well and the general concept of mandatory military service. What are your thoughts?
(Of course this is a bias on my part!)
All western countries should have mil training for a few reasons 1. It will put some fitness back into our lazy youth especially those who are on computers all day.2. the country will have a ready reserve force.3 It will put a mind set in the population that they will have to do some sort of training. HOWEVER unlike the vietnam era these reservists are not to be used to make up numbers in the piddling wars that abound and are only to be used in the case of DECLARED war
 
There are really two ways to take this issue. The first is to relegate the model to Canada whereas the second would be to apply it to other countries.
First, strategically, Canada does not have a pressing need for a large military to secure their borders. The ONLY adjacent country is the US of A and I dont think we will be attacking anytime soon. Not to mention the fact that Canada is our neighbor and a mounting security threat to her will also cause us concern. I doubt that Canada would have to fight alone.
Second, if you are referring to more civilan (Police, DEA, etc.) security as opposed to military security, then mandatory military service is not the way to go.

On the whole, it has both good and bad points. First, a dirtbag is a dirtbag is a dirtbag. No matter what training you pound into his brain or how many times you teach him discipline, he will be a dirtbag. He just might end up being a well trained dirtbag. Unfortunetly, you could be arming the very people you would have to fight later with the knowledge of your training and tactics.
Second, a mandatory anything makes people angry, especially if you start telling people to serve in the armed forces. You will get all kinds of people in there who absolutely hate every moment of it and will take that experience to heart on why the military or perhaps the Canadian government is evil (which its not). The would definetly put a damper on patriotism.
Finally and most importantly, not everyone should be in the military. As a member of the combat arms, it is very important to me who the men to my left and right are. If they are not willing to protect me with their lives, as I am for them, then I will die. I dont want average joe who hates the military and will not do a good job watching my 6 in a combat zone. I expect my peers to do their job 110% and I will do the same.

THat being said, I think some type of mandatory civil service could be good. Having the population choose where they work gives them a hand in it and allows people to have a peek into the different areas of government, be it the military, LEOs, park ranger, etc.
Well what to say first off we in the Australian Army never had dirt bags those not suitable were weeded out at recruit training and at Corps training & if they somehow slipped thru they were sorted out in their units.2 Is this another site where everybody spruikes about combat arms, what garbage, we are all in the same armyI know mechanics who saved the so called combat soldiers in Nam They did not question whether he was combat? 3. The bloke disarming the IEDs that the combat blokes discovered is not a combat soldier ,he is a soldier and who cares if he a draftee or regular.4.When I was in I never worried about my 6 what is that we never mumbled such sayings I take it a watching my back nothing like my 6?
 
All western countries should have mil training for a few reasons 1. It will put some fitness back into our lazy youth especially those who are on computers all day.2. the country will have a ready reserve force.3 It will put a mind set in the population that they will have to do some sort of training. HOWEVER unlike the vietnam era these reservists are not to be used to make up numbers in the piddling wars that abound and are only to be used in the case of DECLARED war

Been a while since you were in?

It's hard enough disciplining and training the Gen Y-ers that volunteered to join up. It would be a bloody nightmare trying to do anything with conscripts. Why do you think scandals like the ADFA Skype thing et al keep happening?

Political correctness and civil liberties have killed off National Service in Australia.
 
not just no but hell no.

I have served in the Army for over 10 years. The guys that gave me the most trouble were the ones who joined and quickly realized that the Army was not for them. Then you would have activist types that have risen with the internet trying to be you tube sensations.

I would rather fight with 100 men who want to be there rather than 1,000 conscripts.
 
not just no but hell no.

I have served in the Army for over 10 years. The guys that gave me the most trouble were the ones who joined and quickly realized that the Army was not for them. Then you would have activist types that have risen with the internet trying to be you tube sensations.

I would rather fight with 100 men who want to be there rather than 1,000 conscripts.

I can't tell you just how much I disagree with you. During the Vietnam War, 6 out of 10 if my comrades were drafted AND I DIDN'T HAVE EVEN A SINGLE PROBLEM WITH THEM COVERING MY SIX.

Americans are just a little funny ... put them to the test, and 99.999% of the time, they will come through.
 
I was called up for Military Training in the UK back in the 1950's and it was for two years. At the time I had an apprenticeship but some one had not processed my papers so I got called just before my finial exams, so I did not go in the army in a good frame of mind, I was put into a County Regiment and did not like my posting so joined the Parachute Regiment I visited around a dozen counties and spent some 18 months on active service. During this time because we had been drafted we were not classed as proper soldiers and were only paid half the wages of a regular soldier which was not a lot before you cut it half, and to say the least life could be grim.
For at least three months when I was overseas we were not allowed to write home in case we said anything about a forthcoming invasion.
Now did it do me any good, well I soon learnt that life was good and to enjoy every moment of it, I made some great friends which I am still in touch with some 50 years plus on. Do I think it was fair, well I survived but a lot of chaps who were called really shouldn't have been and some of them could not face and took the only way out that they could think of and was in a pine box.
Now we have equal rights shouldn't the girls be called up do the same sort of service or does every one still think it is only the young men that should fight and die.
Also if you go down this path any country could soon go bankrupt having an army so big to houseing, clothing and pay let alone to equip. Unless a country is facing a major threat then in my opinion a call up is over kill
 
I have no problem with women serving in a combat zone, carrying a gun and fighting along side their male counterparts.

Let's face it .. women served alongside their Israeli male partners and did one bang up job. Matter of fact, the men said the women were sometimes more vicious and forceful in their fighting than the men.

Woman power has been a by-word for the women's movement for more than a generation - so why shouldn't American women be allowed a combat role right alongside American troops.

That alone tells me that men have unnecessarily been placing women on a pedestal that hasn't been necessary for years. They want equal treatment .. so, let's give it to them.
 
Been a while since you were in?

It's hard enough disciplining and training the Gen Y-ers that volunteered to join up. It would be a bloody nightmare trying to do anything with conscripts. Why do you think scandals like the ADFA Skype thing et al keep happening?

Political correctness and civil liberties have killed off National Service in Australia.
yes it is 25 yrs since I was in, hang the political corectnes and their civil liberties, make it a national priority, teach the future generations that a type of national service MUST be taken. The Swiss the Swedes have it and with what we have only a few hundred miles to our north we need it. They either conform or put them repairing the tullami track for their two years.Lets see them walk out of there.
 
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First, strategically, Canada does not have a pressing need for a large military to secure their borders.
 
yes it is 25 yrs since I was in, hang the political corectnes and their civil liberties, make it a national priority, teach the future generations that a type of national service MUST be taken. The Swiss the Swedes have it and with what we have only a few hundred miles to our north we need it. They either conform or put them repairing the tullami track for their two years.Lets see them walk out of there.

How do you propose to "hang" PC and civil liberties? These are entrenched traits in today's society. Like I said before, why do you think things like the ADFA Skype scandal keep happening? Even after multiple reviews, orders from the CDF and Service Chiefs and annual "equity and diversity" training. It's because kids these days think that it's their "right" to pick and choose which rules to obey. And these are the ones who *volunteered* to join the ADF. Conscripts would be a farking nightmare. Training NCOs would spend most of their time in court defending their actions in trying to train these people.

Lets' face it, dragging mummy's little darling away kicking and screaming is political suicide. No party will touch it. Do you think the Greens would be in favour of it? Doubtful. And they're pulling Juliar's strings at the moment.
 
I can't tell you just how much I disagree with you. During the Vietnam War, 6 out of 10 if my comrades were drafted AND I DIDN'T HAVE EVEN A SINGLE PROBLEM WITH THEM COVERING MY SIX.

Americans are just a little funny ... put them to the test, and 99.999% of the time, they will come through.

We disagree and you might be right. Society has changed a lot since the Vietnam War. I have seen the problems that people, who voluntarily joined the military and realize the Army is not for them, cause their units. If military service was mandatory, the number of those types would increase a lot.
 
When some blighter is trying to kill you then you soon learn who your friends are, and you become a tight little team who look after each other no matter what or where ever you go.
 
Remember Stalingrad

The 'German' Army was not defeated at Stalingrad. What happend was as the fighting got tough between the two North European nations the 6th Army ran out of Germans ( the old, old story ) and its flanks had to be protected by Hungarians ( not so bad ) and for Christsake Romanians! And that's where the Ivans attacked and since no army can be fully supplied by air ( that's why Germany would never have invaded England even if it wanted to - Operation Sealion was about pulling the wool over the Ruskies' eyes ) the result was a foregone conclusion.
What's that to do with conscript Canada. Canada is a multi-ethnic nation, a conscript army would 'fold' in the same way. This does not apply to an army of volunteers.
 
The 'German' Army was not defeated at Stalingrad. What happend was as the fighting got tough between the two North European nations the 6th Army ran out of Germans ( the old, old story ) and its flanks had to be protected by Hungarians ( not so bad ) and for Christsake Romanians! And that's where the Ivans attacked and since no army can be fully supplied by air ( that's why Germany would never have invaded England even if it wanted to - Operation Sealion was about pulling the wool over the Ruskies' eyes ) the result was a foregone conclusion.
What's that to do with conscript Canada. Canada is a multi-ethnic nation, a conscript army would 'fold' in the same way. This does not apply to an army of volunteers.

The British Army during WW1 and WW2 was made up of regular, territorial army troops and other reservists. As loses mounted more and more conscripts went to the front especially towards the end of both wars. Korea, Suez, Malaya and Borneo again were regular, territorial army troops, other reservists and conscripts. Conscripts were as good as their regular and TA counter parts, and they certainly didn't fold.

LeEnfield was a conscript, ask him how many of his mates folded.
 
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I was drafted for National Service and had to fulfil my statutory time within it. I was groomed and taught within an environment that provided firm boundaries with institutional qualities. I learned discipline, hardship and survival. Skills, such as basic cleanliness and working within a team, whatever their personalities and forbouys were, gave people foundations that they carried forward into later life.

I often hear older people say how beneficial this experience was for them and how, on reflection, they valued and enjoyed their experience – however reluctant they felt whilst serving out their National Service or draft.

Much of my experience was based around war. I have seen a lot of blood shed and suffering. I have, indeed, seen human behaviour at its worst and best. Learning to deal with these situations created very mixed emotions, from pain to relief and happiness. The experience of emotional diversity had given me a measure for future reference to draw upon.

It is our young people that lack experience, empathy and compassion that are my concern. In the Western World, we are consumed with the desire for ‘stuff’. Our young people want the latest computer consoles, games and mobile phones. They surround themselves with items, all wanting to be the first to own the latest fad so as they can impress their friends.

This ingrained behaviour demonstrates that many of our young people are selfish and self absorbed. The owning of such ‘stuff’ can make people isolated in many ways and, although they read about hardship and they play games associated with all social issues, it doesn’t compare with reality.

Each passing generation produces teenagers who are more and more brazen, disrespectful, lazy and ill-qualified for success in the real world. Thus, our society becomes more dangerous, depleted and dishonest every year. Conscription, when handled properly, can be an asset to the military, the society and the conscript. Mandatory military service may seem too drastic or impractical to implement, but it is a legitimate idea that deserves a fair discussion and open debate
 
Opa I'd be interested in your view of the Swiss model of a very small standing Army and the rest reservists.
Switzerland that has thought out a system of military service which imposes little burden on the national exchequer and no burden at all on the national content, and which is yet withal highly efficient. Under this system the active Swiss Army on a peace footing numbers about 150,000 men. The trained army that could be called out for service represents practically the total of the male population. Training for military service is looked upon not as a burden but as a pleasure by the citizens, and many of their voluntary sports are designed so as to assist the work of military education.

Between the ages of 16 and 20, when military service begins, there is preparatory military instruction, comprising physical training, gymnastic exercises, marching, obstacle racing, simple drill, the use of the rifle. In the year before he attains 20 the youth is enrolled by the Cantonal authorities (in his commune or place of domicile) as a recruit —the canton being subdivided into recruiting districts —and is fitted out with uniform and equipment, and in the year in which he attains 20 the recruit becomes liable to military service and presents himself for instruction at recruit schools, beginning either about March 15, May 1, or July 1, as directed. All soldiers, whatever the rank they are destined for, pass through the recruit schools. The soldier on completion of recruit school is considered as having entered the Army. As a soldier of the Army he has to attend an annual training camp.

This is really a well-trained home defence force under a militia system that in some respects even surpasses all other armies in its readiness for war, for of no other military force in Europe can it be stated that the establishment in personnel is the same both for peace and war, and there is certainly no other country, that I am aware of, were a fourth of it’s army is annually mobilised for manoeuvres on exactly the same scale of equipment and transport as it would be for actual warfare.

It is a system which is perfectly designed for Swiss conditions. Their neutrality, geography, history and mentality, but it is a purely defensive military system.
 
You gonna ever have a situation where the Schweizer Deutsche are in the centre doing all the fighting ( the origional Vatican Guard was drawn from German Cantons only ) supported on the flanks by the French and Italian Cantons - I know where I would attack!
 
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