Originally Posted by rock45

Hi Bulldog
I have a few questions to ask you on your answer. I don't know what the "recovery package" is? Can I assume China's government kind of favors Indonesian or is I wrong in thinking that? If like you said there oil rich then yes I see what you mean they can afford it. I guess that makes them the only users of Flankers and Hornets in the world. Do you think there spring for more Hornets as there next aircraft purchased? I quickly look at Indonesian air force and see they have both F-16s and Flankers. I can't believe I didn't know that a country with Vipers and Flankers, wow. Have you ever read anything about mock training between the two Vipers vs. Flanker? If you know of any aircraft training between the countries of that region that I could read about please tell me and I’ll look it up. You mention China as a possible viewed threat I guess over oil drilling right? China has a lot of Flankers too and locally producing the J-11B (not sure how good they are) but have a huge need for oil, second only to the United States. So China aircraft have the range to be a little dangerous in the waters around there country I need to look up bases now on a map. I can’t just see it in my head I need base locations and ranges between them to figure out how effective air power can be. This opens a new can of worms for me I don’t know this region well and I just found another article about possible sale or request in the future for Super Hornet, I’ll post it if you want. Can you give me if you know a quick breakdown on who is friendly with who and stuff like that? Nothing in great detail it will just help me with my searches and save time. One last question I thought Vietnam was a player in the oil too drilling rights issue I seem to remember reading something about a while ago. Is Vietnam more US friendly or more Chinese friendly? Thanks for answering my post and hope I didn’t kill you with my string of endless questions. I have tons to learn and I’m all ears.

You can google May 1998 and see that between China and Indonesia there is NO love at all. Indonesia is in bed with the US and Malaysia tends to oppose our interests owing to the political bent of their muslim population which tends towards fundamentalism more than the Indonesian variety of the religion. The division between Malaysia and Indonesia is an old one going back to their days as nascent independant countries and continues to this day with quiet naval standoffs primarily concerning drilling rights in Laut Java (Java Sea).

The recovery packages were those offered by the World Bank and IMF to Asian countries after the Asian Crash of 98 which basicly opened up all countries who accepted to having their currency become worthless overnight, local industries raped by multinationals and a massive deficit to the WB and IMF which rendered them impotent beggar states. Malaysia was the only country to resist and they have fared far better for it.

The threat felt in Asia by smaller countries in the region is one of being swallowed up by a juggernaut. China is being viewed as a economic threat in the making much like the US is seen now by many Vietnamese, Thai, Indonesians and Malaysians I know. No one trusts their professed benevolence.

Hi bulldogg
I Googled 1998 like you said and I see it was a nasty time. The little I read I'm sure there's tons more on the topic. While in Google I mapped to the area and now see how the islands and what the region looks like better. It kinds of falls in place now in my head thinking about. It's still a little odd to me that the US and Russia both sell advance aircraft to both countries, that's not very common. But oil money involved so it doesn't surprise me either. I'm not sure what weapons the US sells to the RMAF but if would seem the Su-30 MKM Flanker could carry out the same missions. It still seems like maintaining three different twin engine fighters is a lot but like you mention oil money helps. I also see where Vietnam is and where the Spratly Islands are and totally understand why they bought Flankers. It's a range issue totally both the Hornet and Fulcrum are mid size fighters with average to short range. The Flankers change that totally for them they could now intercept other countries long range patrols over the ocean and away from there country. In a sense they can use the Fulcrums as point defense fighters sort what they were designed for and the Hornets as bomb trucks and fighters if needed for that as well. I wonder if the Fulcrums have in-flight refueling probes and if RMAF has tankers? How does Malaysia ground forces or army match up to Indonesia, since they share a island? Thanks

A Irkut press release link for the Flankers
http://www.irkut.com/en/news/press_r...x.php?id48=252

Originally Posted by sandy

Flanker:The Global Wing
No Flanker No victory.

What's the deal? Mexico uses Soviet Birds?

Originally Posted by rock45

How does Malaysia ground forces or army match up to Indonesia, since they share a island?

I'd back the Indonesians against anyone in that region of the world on the ground except against the Diggers. Kopassus troops are all they are rumored to be these days and Indonesian troops get training and expertise from SF group and Rangers as well. But the conflicts between Malay and Indo will always be on the water and there, Malaysia has an edge.

Sukhoi model 30s, have been a best seller, in Russian military exports for years. There is a reason. Its a medium priced 4th generation fighter, that offers the legendary Mikoyan, and Sukhoi maneuverability, and the unique "tail slide" ability that those two companies basically created.

It should be no surprise. Its the most obvious choice for a nation who doesn't want to play western standards just for a arms treaty. Because like the classic Iran F 14 story. Once you make a arms deal with a western nation, you only receive their technology, if you play by their rules.

The choice is there's.

I just cant wait until research in drone technology eclipses the Manned Fighter. Like the F/A 22, betcha that it will be cheaper for a enemy to by hundreds of cheap unmanned drones, to attack, our by then , highly modified F/A 22s. In fewer numbers, and high price tags, they make clear a large number of the drones out, but, one (possibly super Raptor by then) will a huge loss, in life, and $$$$$$$$$

But thats a topic for another day.

Hi 5.56X45mm
What's the deal? Mexico uses Soviet Birds? This was almost a semi confirmed deal but Mexico's government or really there navy back out. Yes it was Mexico's navy not there air force who was interested in getting there hands on a small batch of Su-27 used Flankers. Another rumor going around was Mexico air force getting used C/D Hornets but this fell through with nothing being confirmed. Maybe for guarding our southern border a little better maybe some Texas made Vipers would be a better choice. All three choices were over kills for shooting down drug runners that's for sure. Imagine big Flankers larger then F-14s chasing down single and double engine prop job aircraft. Mexico did buy some Hip-17s but not sure of the numbers bought but I know it was a signed done deal.

Hi Sukio
I am a Flanker fan put American missiles on it, provide a lot of Sim training time, mix in 225/250 hours of stick time and Flankers can be dangerous fighters. Training is the key and of course good maintenance but overall Flankers might be the best fighter for the buck on the market, in there class. I don't know if there maintenance hogs or not, I assume newer model aren't but Russian made hardware does get a bad rep sometimes. I'm still hunting around for maintenance info on Flankers vs. Fulcrums, but can't seem to find it. I read in Africa Flankers and Fulcrums met in combat but read mixed results on how the combat really went down. From what I read radar guided missiles from both sides missed or failed with Ukraine and Russian pilots flying too. And the Flanker won after the Fulcrums ran low on fuel and were downed by AA-11s on ass shots, as the Fulcrum was RTB. A guy wrote back to me said this is not confirmed and not to believe it until better or confirmed info comes out. So I'm sure what's true or real but thought it was interesting reading about Russian fighters against other Russian fighter types.

Yes, Russia canned every updating program, and introduction of aircraft like the Terminator (Su 37 experimental model) And Su 47 Berkut, to counter the F/A 22 Raptor, and EF 2000 Euro-fighter.

But, realize, that early Su 27s, and Mig 29s, had only 150 bullets at max, relying on short ranged, and medium ranged missiles. The Soviets had a large array of aircraft, each one designed for only one task. The U.S., had mulitrole aircraft, that kept evolving ever since the Fighter bombers of Vietnam.

Anyway, don't think Russia is falling behind,(check out Sukhoi's recent drone program ) they have the new updated ideas and are working on the technology. They have already made prototypes, which of course, are a empty shell compared to what they had dreams for. Money is the deciding factor on how well your Flankers will perform. Like a Pacific made tuner car, you put cash into it, and a well trained, experienced crew, then any Flanker, is a lethal threat to air superiority.

Your right, and I agree on many points.

Flankers for everyone. What fun.

I gotta get me a Flanker, preferably the prototype with thrust vectoring. Seriously, if there was any aircraft I could take a ride in this second, it'd be the Su-37. Such an awesome plane. I bet it could take a Raptor if it somehow managed to get within dogfighting range. But that's the hardest part against a Raptor.

I, a fan of Sukhoi's products, chose this baby,



It's not canned, yet, but, more or less pending. But, with expert pilot's, trainers, and maintenance crews. One of these bad boys, with fly by wire to smooth out control problems, a F 117A style materials on the skin of the plane, this one, with a internal weapon bay, it will give any Raptor pilot a run for his money.

She looks smooth, and cool with the Black finish....

Enough drooling over that thought of having my very own Su 47 Berkut.