There is no doubt that the Merkava is not a tank for other countries. It is built with special care to Israeli demands over all. I think the main weakness is the top speed and the manuverability. But as far as a firefight I think it should do very well.

I stand corrected.

The new Merkava version with the upgrade powerpack, upgrade armor and 120mm smoothbore would be a formidable MBT.

Given the experience of Merkava crews over Challenger crews, I would give advantage to Merkava.

I think I will keep my bets on the M1A1 given the superior power to weight ratio (superior mobility).

I agree completely on that point, and that is a serious weakness of the Merkava. But considering the purpose and resources, I doubt one can get a better deal than the heavy-hard-headed chariot...

Hard to choose between the top western tanks in a tank on tank battle.

Unless someone has some classified info on every tanks armour, it's impossible to say which one would be superior.

The Leclerk is one of the newest and has an autoloader, so I guess it should come in for a mention.

But it seems tanks of today like tanks of the past are still vulnerable in urban fighting, M-1's were knocked out in Iraq by rpg's and early model Merkavas had shot traps that were exploited by guerillas, frequently taking them out with rpg's.

I've noticed that posters bring crew training into the disscusion when backing up one tank, fighter etc, which is O.K. I suppose when it's U.S. or Brit tankers or pilots going up against a third world country like Iraq, but I would have thought that the training for most western countries would be on a par. And I guess Russia's or China's elite front line forces would be up to scratch.

Merkavas had shot traps that were exploited by guerillas, frequently taking them out with rpg's.

?!? may we have a source?

Originally Posted by Ashes

Hard to choose between the top western tanks in a tank on tank battle.

Unless someone has some classified info on every tanks armour, it's impossible to say which one would be superior.

The Leclerk is one of the newest and has an autoloader, so I guess it should come in for a mention.

But it seems tanks of today like tanks of the past are still vulnerable in urban fighting, M-1's were knocked out in Iraq by rpg's and early model Merkavas had shot traps that were exploited by guerillas, frequently taking them out with rpg's.

I've noticed that posters bring crew training into the disscusion when backing up one tank, fighter etc, which is O.K. I suppose when it's U.S. or Brit tankers or pilots going up against a third world country like Iraq, but I would have thought that the training for most western countries would be on a par. And I guess Russia's or China's elite front line forces would be up to scratch.

The Leopard 2A6, Challenger 2, and M1A2SEP armor all has pretty much the same level of protection, around 900mm KE and 1500+ HEAT.

The Merkava is the most survivable tank in the world for urban warfare. It is not frequently penetrated by RPGs, it took like 5 Saggers to take one out in 72.

Manuel loaders and superior to auto-loaders.

It is not frequently penetrated by RPGs, it took like 5 Saggers to take one out in 72.

I think you mean 79'....

Originally Posted by SHERMAN

I think you mean 79'....

IIRC, the first Merkava combat was in 1982, in Lebanon.

Yes, but it entered service in 1979, so it probably was envolved in skirmishes along that the Lebanese border. I guss your right, and he did mean 82'.

Originally Posted by SHERMAN

Yes, but it entered service in 1979, so it probably was envolved in skirmishes along that the Lebanese border. I guss your right, and he did mean 82'.

Oh yeah, 82. Silly me.