M-16: my first time. Please help.

Italian Guy

Milforum Hitman
Hi. It' s my first time posting in the Military Hardware section.
I wanted to ask: is it true that 10-15 seconds are enough to unload two M-16 loaders (m-16 being the standard weapon for checkpoints in Iraq)? So is it true that 10-15 seconds are enough to shoot 240 bullets?

Because at the Checkpoint it was 4 weapons shooting. Each loader 30 shots. Two loaders per weapon. 60 x 4= 240.
I'd like info on this, thanks.
 
Italian guy,
I did'nt quite get your question?..what do you mean by "loader"? I take you mean the magazine or ammo clip.
The cyclic rate of fire of the M-16 is approx 750 rounds per minute.
Because at the Checkpoint it was 4 weapons shooting. Each loader 30 shots. Two loaders per weapon. 60 x 4= 240.
About the Check point incident. Not more than a few short bursts would have been fired and not two whole clips per rifle (as you have assumed). Please understand that if all 4 rifles (as you have inicated) fired even 50% of their rounds into the car, then none would have survived.
 
The rate of fire on the M-16A2 is 800 Rounds per minute. It is in a three burst configuration at best.
If it was just fired in one go (i.e. fully automatic, which the A2 doesn't have), you could empty that thing in 2.25 seconds. Since it is three burst yes, I would say you could totally manage to empty those magazines into the car in less than 10 seconds.
 
In the older M-16A1, the rate of fire was like 600 rounds per minute and people were using that stuff up within seconds. Under 10 seconds and all. That's kind of the reason why they got rid of the automatic fire in the A2 version.
 
Actually the change was because full auto on the M-16A1 was too inaccurate. The constant fire caused drift. Three round burst means a greater ability to stay on target with the M-16A2.
 
Charge_7 said:
Actually the change was because full auto on the M-16A1 was too inaccurate. The constant fire caused drift. Three round burst means a greater ability to stay on target with the M-16A2.

I thought that three-round burst was for higher probability of hit. Kind of like the Russian An-94 Abakan with the 1800 RPM cyclic ROF in the 2 round burst mode.
 
The m4/m16 is the main shoulder fired weapon however I don’t know what unit was running the checkpoint and I have not really researched the subject but I can almost guarantee there was a crew served there ala 50cal machine gun mk19 grenade launcher or m249 saw.
The saw could easily do that in about 20seconds all by its self-
750 rounds per minute that’s about 120 rounds every 10 seconds and what is too say that there where not multiple crew served weapons set up in over watch. When we did check points there was always 2 vehicle mounted crew served weapons in over watch
 
Did you read what I said?

Can you explain the difference between "a greater ability to stay on target" and "for higher probability of hit"? Obviously there is none.
 
Vitaly said:
Charge_7 said:
Actually the change was because full auto on the M-16A1 was too inaccurate. The constant fire caused drift. Three round burst means a greater ability to stay on target with the M-16A2.

I thought that three-round burst was for higher probability of hit. Kind of like the Russian An-94 Abakan with the 1800 RPM cyclic ROF in the 2 round burst mode.

Greater ability to stay on target gives the shooter a higher probabilty of hitting the target. Thats what Charge 7 was saying. Sustained fire in auto with the A1 caused muzzle rise which caused all but the first few rounds to go high.

As far as the amount of rounds fired in 10 seconds it's possible with a reload. But I tend to go with sleepyscout. There were probably crew serves involved as well as M249'S.
 
There would most definitly be a M249 involved. Same caliber as the M16 and normally part of the 4 man fire team. It's not crew served either, so that is what probally opened up, along with M16's.
 
thegrinch073 said:
There would most definitly be a M249 involved. Same caliber as the M16 and normally part of the 4 man fire team. It's not crew served either, so that is what probally opened up, along with M16's.

And a good SAW Gunner can really ruin your weekend.
 
03USMC said:
thegrinch073 said:
There would most definitly be a M249 involved. Same caliber as the M16 and normally part of the 4 man fire team. It's not crew served either, so that is what probally opened up, along with M16's.

And a good SAW Gunner can really ruin your weekend.

Could it be that 1/2 a box in a few seconds mode? 100 rounds of anything can ruin your weekend.

Anyway, to the question, unloading 2 magazines in 10-15 seconds even with 3 round burst is possible, but the amount of 5.56 rounds going down range was probably more from the 249 than the 16's or 4's.
 
Has anyone seen anything official on the amount of rounds fired during the incident? This is a pretty sensitive subject in my mind and to many people start speculating what could have or did happen and someone will eventually get pissed off.
 
Yeah the saw could definitely do that even without the gas setting on adverse.... are the M 4's semi and auto? or do they have the 3 round burst aswell. Our variants are semi and auto, both the regular version and carbine.
 
Charge_7 said:
Did you read what I said?

Can you explain the difference between "a greater ability to stay on target" and "for higher probability of hit"? Obviously there is none.

I thought that there is a difference. I figured that with say the An-94 there is a high probability of hit due to the fact that with the high ROF there are two bullets going down range before the felt recoil affects sight alignment. Which results in more rounds where you aimed your first shot. For a greater ability to stay on target, it could mean that there is so little felt recoil that the sight alignment remains centered regardless of the amount of rounds that go throught it. For example if you use a conversion kit on an m-16 to the .22lr caliber. You could empty clips without the sights becoming un-aligned. That is something that is more difficult to do with a higher caliber weapon so the fact that the An-94 does have a higher probability of hit (since there are more bullets being shot without the shooter shifting the sight picture) but since the recoil is felt afterward anyway, it doesn't help in reaquiring the target which would mean nothing in the greater ability to keep the sights on target for more follow-up shots.
 
As 03USMC made more clear for me,

"Greater ability to stay on target gives the shooter a higher probabilty of hitting the target. Thats what Charge 7 was saying. Sustained fire in auto with the A1 caused muzzle rise which caused all but the first few rounds to go high."

You're comparing it to single shot mode. I was replying to 13th Redneck's belief that full auto had been done away with to conserve ammo. It wasn't, it was to keep the rate of fire from causing drift. You're coming at this from the complete opposite end of the discussion.
 
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