The lies of the 11-M attacks in Spain 2004

[Corocotta]

Hi!!

It´s been a long time sience the last time I posted, but I am back.

I would like to tell you about the big holes that we have in the investigation of who made this horrible terrorist attack where 192 persons died.

In the begining the main suspect was ETA, but after the police found some proves that apointed to Al-Qaeda the investigation changed. After two years it has been demostrated that all the proves that appointed to Al-Qaeda were FAKE.

The investigation that the judge is doing has shown up that there are many unclear things. The recently declasified summary is quiete long (80.000 pages), but i will try to be concise, do not worry!:-D


-After the attacks al the bagagge in the trains was checked to control if there were more bombs. There was not any. Then all the baggage was taken to a place in order to control and see if the were more proves. Well, after 10 hours a bag appeared in this place with more that 12 kg of TNT. Of course that at the begining every thought that it came from the trains, but in the judicial investigation it has been demostrated that this bag was never in the trains, the policeman chef in charge of controlling all the bagagge in the train has declareted to the judge that that he did not see that bag in the trains


- This bag was used to detain the suspects . Through the information provided in this prove (celular telephone, TNT...) five people were arrested. Two of them were the owners of the shop were the telephones used in the bomb were bought. The funny part is that these two guys were hindu, as you may know, hindu and muslims have not much in common.

But this are not the only extrange thing in the investigation. I will point a few of them and I talk more about them later.

- The TNT (Goma 2 -Eco) used in the attack was bought to a police informer. This guy was also a provider of TNT to the ETA terrorist group.

- Some of the suspects in the bombings were also police informers (they were inmolated in an explosion 10 days after the 11-M) I will talk about this later, there are many proves that points that they were killed and they did not suicide their selfs.

- It has been demostrated in the investigation that agents of the CNI (spanish secret services) were involved with some of the suspects. For example the shop were the terrorist liberated the phones was property of a policeman member of the CNI.

- Every day there are more proves that shows that members of ETA had contact with some of the main suspects in the massacre. The terrorist that put the boms in Mdrid came from Asturias, in northern Spain. Well, the same day a ETA command was deteined with 1.000 Kg of TNT in a van going to Madrid. They were found with a map were the "arab" terrorist put the other bombs. Other coincidence is that when one of the suspects was deteined he had a papper with the telephone nunmer of one of the most bloodthirsty ETA terrorist.


I will keep writting and telling you how the investigation develops.



P.D: Yestarday ETA declared a permanet truce and our president (Zapatero) i going to start negociating with them!! :twisted:

 

[Airborne Eagle]

Do you have a link for this? Preferably in English. My Spanish isn't so great anymore.

 

[WNxRogue]

To tell you the truth, im not convinced it was the ETA. The facts dont all point at the ETA, and there are facts that point elsewhere. Now of course, I might be coming at this from a biased point of view because I am 1/2 basque ( 1st generation american), but you can not say beyond a doubt that it was the ETA. I have another question: If it was the ETA, why not say so? The spanish government gains nothing from saying it was not a ETA attack (although now that the ETA has disbanded this whole topic is moot).

On another note I am personally happy that the basques get a chance to vote for an autonomous region. I think it is a situation like palestine, tibet or any number of people's who have had their ancesteral homeland (and when i say ancesteral, at least in this case I mean possible pre-greek) to another larger nation. Of course, they will not be their own country still, but having their own self-government seems the right thing for those people.

Before you jump down my throat, no I do not believe that the ETA was right to call terrorist attacks, but I think that the thing they believe in is just, just not the way they go about getting it.

 

[Corocotta]

Airborne Eagle, sorry, but I do not have a link in english. This information is only known in Spain at the moment. It comes from the summary of the judge that is investigating the 11-M attacks. I have a link in spanish:

Click here

WnxRogue, I am not saying that ETA putted the bombs, but they had something to do with it. And I am not the one that says it, it is the info contained in the judicial investigation. As you should Know, this attacks ocurred three day before the general election back in 2004. The opossition acussed Aznar of the terroris atacks becouse of the support he gived to Bush during the Gulf war. Aznar from the first moment said that ETA had something to do with the bombings, after a couple days proves that appointed to Al-qaueda appeared (proves that were fake) , and Aznar was shown to the public opinion as a lier. Well, Zapatero does not want to recognize that ETA was implied in the attack because the he would be the liyer.

Concerning your hapiness about the Basques getting an autonomus region: I have to tell you that they already have, sience 1980. They have their own parlament, they make their own laws, they have their own police, their language is official there, they control their taxes and they get a LOT of money from the rest os the spanish. They already have a self goverment, lots bigger than the one Ireland has.The comparation betewen the Basque country and Palestine show me your ignorance in this issue. I do not know if you have been travelling recently here, but I have to coment you a few things: First, The Basque country is one of the richiest provinces of Spain (not like palestine); the spanish police do not make selective killings like the israeli; the basques have NEVER been independent from Spain. In the basque country there are not electric fences, the basques are nor controlled by the police and so on. The comparation is so ridiculous that is even strange triying to explain.

You say that the Basques are pre-greek; of course, but the Cantabrians, the Asturians, the Galicians and many more also, but we do not put bombs and shot in the head of people that do not think like us. Spain is formed by many cultures.

You say that what ETA fights for is just. You are ver free to belive in this. Or may be you do not know what they fight for. This terrorist group has a marxist-lennist ideology, they want to implant comunism in Euskadi (The real name). Is this what you want for the land of your ancesters? They also fight for the total independance of Euskadi. The problem here is that they are not the only ones that have to decide, Euskadi is a part of Spain, so all spanish should be asked if they want their independence.

 

[Ted]

Make from Basque an automous province or something. But I reckon that a souvereign country is not feasible and should not be pursued. I mean what is there to gain, except their pride of being independent?

 

[Corocotta]

Ted, they are already an autonomic province with their own parlament, laws, taxes, police, education system, healthcare system and so on. They have LOTS more independance than Ireland.

What ETA wants is an independent and comunist Basque country, that is what they fight for.

 

[Ted]

Well I reckon that won't happen very soon! What is their core business, the running of the Bulls? That is good for a national economy....

 

[Corocotta]

No, fortunatly is not going to happen. They get the money from the extorsion to bussines man and smuggling drugs

 

[Corocotta]

It has long been understood that the Spanish socialists shamelessly exploited the March 11, 2004, terrorist attacks in Madrid’s train station for political advantage. They did so with palpable disregard for a frightening fact: The far-reaching geostrategic repercussions of that incident — which vaporized the ruling conservative party’s electoral lead just days before the polling — gave those seeking similar results elsewhere every incentive to engage in violence against other democracies’ electoral processes.

But what if the perpetrators were neither Islamofacists, as the winning socialists immediately asserted, nor the Basque terrorist organization known as ETA, as the government of José Maria Aznar initially (and fatally) assumed?

On May 16, the Madrid daily El Mundo published a remarkable editorial that draws upon the paper’s ongoing investigation and contains information potentially as explosive as the 3/11 attacks themselves: El Mundo suggests that, almost immediately after the 12 bombs went off in one of the city’s busiest train stations, some in the Spanish police force fabricated evidence, then swiftly hyped it to the domestic and international press. The object seems to have been to support the oppositions’ claims that Islamists angry over the government’s support for the war in Iraq were responsible for the attacks.

At worst, the information uncovered by El Mundo could mean that the deadly bombing was actually perpetrated with the complicity of the same Spanish police bomb squad, Tedax, that was subsequently charged with investigating the crime.

Either way, if the leads published in recent days pan out, it would appear that Spain’s 2004 elections were stolen by terrorists, alright. But the terrorist operation that brought the socialists to power may have been an inside job — in effect, a coup perpetrated by some of the same authorities who are responsible for preventing terror. Explosive stuff, if true. But all preliminary and speculative right now.

Monday’s article written by El Mundo’s Fernando Múgica. Highlights include the following:

Questions have been raised about the actual provenance of a knapsack dubbed “Backpack 13” and its contents (plastic explosive, a cell phone used as a trigger, and nails and bolts that would act as shrapnel to maximize the bomb’s destructive effect). Shortly after the 3/11 attack, ABC News showed what it claimed as “exclusive” footage of both the purported backpack and its unexploded innards. Alemán’s posting says:

According to reporter Fernando Múgica in the Spanish daily El Mundo. According to Múgica, at a Madrid police station “the officers wanted to help the ABC reporters, but when the camera crew came, they didn't have the backpack that had contained the bomb there, so one of the officers showed them a similar backpack which was the property of another officer.” Said Mugica, “I don't know whether the network knew this or simply accepted that the bag they were shown was the real one.”​

The journalistic investigation revealed that “the Tedax officers hid for three months [from] the investigating judge that an X-ray done to the real (not to the [one] staged for ABC) backpack showed that there was no way it could have ever exploded since it had unconnected cables. Something odd, since it had always been said that the bombers were technically proficient.”

It seems that a phonebook belonging to Carmen Toro, allegedly one of the men who supplied the explosive used in the 3/11 attacks, contained the cellphone number for Tedax’s chief. What is more, Alemán’s posting incredulously recounts how, “When the investigating judge called the number, a chief's aide answered the phone and said that it belonged to one of the guys in the squad, ‘who used the boss' name as a nickname.’”

The claim that the Aznar government wrongly — and for political reasons — initially blamed ETA for the attacks rests on two propositions derived from Backpack 13’s contents: The nature of the explosive and evidence associated with its cellphone trigger.

The type of explosive found in the alleged bombers’ backpack was a plastic known as Goma 2 ECO, rather than the Tytadine that ETA had employed in its prior attacks. Alemán notes, however, that “the conclusion that the exploded backpacks had Goma 2 ECO in it was made because of what was found on the unexploded one — not on actual forensic analysis of the explosion site, since apparently once it's gone off it's absolutely impossible to know for sure, [since] both Goma 2 ECO and Tytadine [are] two brands of generic dynamite.”

The phone provided three pieces of incriminating evidence. First of all, on it were found to the fingerprints of one Jamal Zougam, the ringleader of the Islamist “Lavapies” cell now blamed for the Madrid attack.
Second, the phone was supposed to be activated by its alarm and then vibrate, causing the plastic explosive to detonate. Since the bombers apparently made a novice’s mistake by failing to connect the wires from the phone to the explosive with electrical tape, even the slightest movement of the backpack would likely prevent the cellphone’s signal from setting off the bomb.

Even more curious is the fact that the phone in the Backpack #13 was a Mitsubishi Trium, one of very few on the market that require a SIM card to operate the alarm. Since, as Alemán notes, “it was the analysis of the SIM card which, less than 48 hours after the blasts, allowed the police to arrest the alleged perpetrators,” the question occurs: Why would terrorists who owned a cellphone shop and are deemed to be very technically proficient deliberately choose to use a device that would lead the police to their door?


Speaking of cellphones, the Alemán blog titillates readers by offering further details from the unfolding El Mundo investigation. He reports that:

Cellphones used for March 11 were unlocked in a phone shop owned by... a Spanish police officer. And not just any police officer: It was Maussili Kalaji, a Syrian born citizen who had been granted Spanish citizenship several years ago and entered the police department when he arrived in Spain [despite] his past as an Al Fatah member and as an agent for the Soviets' intelligence services.
Apparently as soon as [Kalaji] left the [Spanish] police academy, he was assigned to infiltrate extremist groups and so he got acquainted with such nice guys as Abu Dadah, currently under trial for the 9/11 plot and who will be on trial again in the future for his role on March 11. He also was assigned to the security detail of Judge Garzón, now on leave and teaching at a New York university — who insisted that, no matter what Aznar was saying on March 11, he knew from minute 1 that…the bombings had been by Islamic terrorists, not ETA. I think we know now why.
And that's not all: Kalaji's sister was the translator for the police in charge of translat[ing] the wiretapped conversations between the alleged March 11 culprits before the bombings. And his ex-wife, also a police officer, was the first to arrive at the scene where another key [piece of] evidence pointing to Islamic terrorists and not ETA was found: a white van with detonators and some tapes with Koranic verses. Socialists blame Aznar's government for hiding this but, of course, maybe its guys got there first....
​

The evidence presented thus far by El Mundo is, to be sure, inconclusive. Yet, it strongly suggests that at least some in the Spanish police may know considerably more about who was really behind the 3/11 bombings — attacks that undid the electoral fortunes of the Spanish government, brought to power socialists hostile to its most important domestic and foreign policies and precipitated changes in those policies that could only encourage terrorists to interfere in elections elsewhere.

Given the stakes for Spain, for its relations with the United States, and for the democratic world more generally, there should be few higher priorities than getting to the bottom of what may be Spain’s Terrorgate. As the current Spanish government might have reasons for resisting a no-holds-barred investigation, and those in Washington anxious to foster improved bilateral ties may be reluctant to press for one, it may fall to the sorts of citizen-activists and bloggers who thwarted Dan Rather’s notorious attempt to hijack America’s exercise of democracy in 2004 to find out precisely what happened to its Spanish counterpart.

http://www.nationalreview.com/gaffne...0505181246.asp



I could not find actual news. This is nothing. But in Spain every day comes ut more and more news, each of them more scary. If you understand spanish I can give you tons of links. I have opened a debate about this in the political area, may be you want to continue there...I would like every body to read what is going on in Spain.