Liberals/Democrats want to nationalize American Oil Businesses

[mmarsh]

Until you really need it, then you'll learn an old lesson, you get what you pay for.

Well it depends on the system, but if its a well (taxpayer) funded system the actual care is top notch. I do speak from experience having been on both U.S private and French Universal Healthcare Systems.

The problem with private insurance is that its a for-profit business. Therefore their bottom line is more important than the care they give. A UHC doesnt have that problem, being that its nonprofit.

 

[Missileer]

Well it depends on the system, but if its a well (taxpayer) funded system the actual care is top notch. I do speak from experience having been on both U.S private and French Universal Healthcare Systems.

The problem with private insurance is that its a for-profit business. Therefore their bottom line is more important than the care they give. A UHC doesnt have that problem, being that its nonprofit.

Profit is what drives capitalism. Non-profit anything is not much of an incentive for achieving the best of everything. It's sort of the Cadillac theory, if you have ask the price, you had better be prepared to accept the bottom layer of society's offerings.

 

[mmarsh]

Profit is what drives capitalism. Non-profit anything is not much of an incentive for achieving the best of everything. It's sort of the Cadillac theory, if you have ask the price, you had better be prepared to accept the bottom layer of society's offerings.

Capitalism has no business in health care, thats my steadfast belief. Richard Nixon was not a bad president, but Allowing medical care to become a business was one of the worst decisions he ever made (until Watergate). We have already seen that whenever the HMOs are given the choice of cutting costs or saving a persons life by expensive surgery they will universally chose the former.

Yes Non-profit can motivate good heathcare, because if the care begins to suffer the Administration that watches over the system gets voted out of office. In France and other countries its part of (what would be the USA's) Health and Human Services Department and its run by a cabinet official who reports directly to the President.

As for the price, do you know that Americans right now pay the most in healthcare costs? Another example of why the current system doesn't work. I would gladly pay extra in taxes provided that we actually get a full 100% full coverage system for all citizens.

 

[5.56X45mm]

Okay, you want a selfish answer for the whole issue of the Medical System...

Screw other people. I bust my ass and I don't want to pay for other people. You can bust your ass just as I do and get the same level of coverage that I do. I have an ad in my hands right now from Wachovia Bank (Internationl Bank) for a Medical Assistance Plan under written by AIG Life Insurance Company. Lowest one is $150 a month...

It offers Doctor Visits and will cover $50-$75 per visit
It Offers Hospitalization and will $250-$1000 per day, 180 Days Max
It Offers Emergency Room Treatment and will cover $75-$100 per visit
It Offers Surgical Procedures and will cover $100-$4,360 per procedure.

Gee... for $150 a month that's not a bad deal.

So if I was so broke like some people in the country I can still afford that. How? Simple. I cut my internet. BAM! -$50 a month right there. Cut my Cable TV. BAM! Another -$80. I don't go to the movies every weekend. BAM! -$20 right there...

Simple enough. The poorest neighborhoods that I have worked. Major Section 8 Housing. Folks feeding of EBT Food Stamps, they don't work, welfare type folks that do nothing but feed of the government's tit are able to afford High Speed Internet, Xbox 360s with Xbox Live Gold, Digital Cable TV or Dish, and I see them at the local theaters every other day.

Sorry, but I was not put on this Earth to bust my ass so the jackass down the shirt doesn't has to.

 

[MontyB]

Weird I pay $78 (about $65 USD) a month for 100% private health care coverage, seems private coverage in the US isn't as efficient as the same thing here in good old New Zealand.

Still I guess they have to compete with the public health system so they can't be driven by greed sorry I mean profit.

 

[5.56X45mm]

Weird I pay $78 (about $65 USD) a month for 100% private health care coverage, seems private coverage in the US isn't as efficient as the same thing here in good old New Zealand.

United States of America - Population of 304,237,000

New Zealand - Population of 4,252,000

Hmmm..... New York City - Population of 8,214,426 , City of Los Angeles - Population of 3,849,378, and Chicago - Population of 2,833,321. Three of America's largest cities have a greater population three times more then what the entire nation of New Zealand has. That's just three cities.

Yeah, the in USA. Sadly we have a ton more welfare slackers sucking off the Government's Tit then you do in New Zealand. Also do to simple numbers we have a larger percentage of illegals that put a drain on the economic system as a whole. These are people that do not pay taxes at all so all they do is take and not contribute. Last time I checked there isn't a mass migration of illegal immigrants to New Zealand.

Still I guess they have to compete with the public health system so they can't be driven by greed sorry I mean profit.

Oh, I'm sorry... You have a population of 4,252,000. And you have a Public and Private Health Care System... So that means that you have a number of your population that pays out of their own pocket like you and covers the ones on welfare. Gee.... no wonder why its' cheaper. You have a lower drain on the Health Care System.

 

[MontyB]

But surely one of the cornerstones of capitalism is supply and demand, New Zealand is miles from anywhere, has to import almost all of our medical supplies and 100th the size of the USA and yet can provide private medical insurance covering 100% of expenses fees for almost one third of the price.

I think it more likely the answer is in efficiencies, we are a smaller country with health care providers that have to compete with a government funded health care system therefore they cant afford to be greedy.

I would also suggest that per capita we have just as many "welfare slackers" as you do.

Oh, I'm sorry... You have a population of 4,252,000. And you have a Public and Private Health Care System... So that means that you have a number of your population that pays out of their own pocket like you and covers the ones on welfare. Gee.... no wonder why its' cheaper. You have a lower drain on the Health Care System.

Yeah I have to admit having the two systems is great I know that I wont be seeing the elderly going without to pay for their medical needs or just dying because they cant afford them, I know that if I should ever fall on hard times I will have a safety net and all that for for about 3% of my tax.

Hmmm now I remember why we chose to live here, thanks.

Now heres a question for you...

Okay, you want a selfish answer for the whole issue of the Medical System...

Screw other people. I bust my ass and I don't want to pay for other people.

How can you claim to be a patriot when you have this attitude toward the people of your nation?

To me the most important part of any nation is not its flag or the chunk of rock that defines its borders but the people that claim it as their own so to me saying screw you as long as I am ok is as close to an unpatriotic act as I can imagine.

 

[The Other Guy]

The major theme I'm working at on healthcare is that if it's so terrible then why does half the world use it?

 

[mmarsh]

Screw other people. I bust my ass and I don't want to pay for other people. You can bust your ass just as I do and get the same level of coverage that I do. -5.56

But here is the problem. Somebody paid for you. Who paid for your LEO training? your equipment? your government plan insurance? your salary? Those were the tax dollars of fellow Floridians who busted their ass too.
As a state employee I'll wager your medical insurance plan is better than most peoples private insurance. So its a bit hypocritical to deny people the same right that your are currently enjoying, especially as you are a public offical. One other fact -for the record. Most people on welfare HAVE jobs, its just their jobs dont pay the daily bills. Perhaps if we pay people enough to get by we wont need welfare.

If you eliminate welfare were do you think people are going to supplement their income? The answer is CRIME.

 

[5.56X45mm]

Screw other people. I bust my ass and I don't want to pay for other people. You can bust your ass just as I do and get the same level of coverage that I do. -5.56

But here is the problem. Somebody paid for you. Who paid for your LEO training? your equipment? your government plan insurance? your salary? Those were the tax dollars of fellow Floridians who busted their ass too.
As a state employee I'll wager your medical insurance plan is better than most peoples private insurance. So its a bit hypocritical to deny people the same right that your are currently enjoying, especially as you are a public offical. One other fact -for the record. Most people on welfare HAVE jobs, its just their jobs dont pay the daily bills. Perhaps if we pay people enough to get by we wont need welfare.

If you eliminate welfare were do you think people are going to supplement their income? The answer is CRIME.

Who paid for my training?!?!?! ME. I put myself through the Academy (Miami Dade College, School of Justice). I had to pay a $5,000 tuition. The equipment that's on my Belt. I paid for it. $100 for the holster, $30 for the belt, $15 for the magazine pouch, $40 for my two handcuff, $400 for my sidearm, $500 for my shotgun, $999 for my patrol rifle.

I put myself through half of the service classes. DIU, Radar, Tactical Carbine, Tactical Pistol Craft, Economic Crimes, Dive Class.... I paid the training schools myself.

As for my medical insurance plan. I pay for it myself. Why.... because I'm a reserve officer. I'm not covered as a fulltime officer. I still go to school. So I'm paying for my own college courses, I bust my ass as a police officer without benefits, I don't fall under the state retirement plan or medical, and everything that I use for work other then my uniforms I have bought myself. I have eight pairs of uniforms. I was issued two.

Only thing I don't pay for is the radio and my patrol car. But wait.... it's not a take home. So I drive 84 miles everyday when I go to work. I pay the gas out of my own pocket for my truck...

I'm covered under a Private Medical Insurance Plan provided by Cigna. So don't make it sound like I reap the rewards of tax based systems. I don't.... I work just like everyone else. My income does not come from me putting in hours. It comes from working Off Duty Details. Basically I hire out my service when I'm off duty for a source of income. Plus I work a required amount of hours a months as a reserve police officer.

I don't get a W2 from the IRS. I get a 1099. The IRS charges me as if I was Self Employed. I had to pay Uncle Sam close to $6000 back in January in Taxes. I got a check for $100 back from them. The Stimulus Check was a nice unexpected bonus.

You want to see my tax records..... just about everything that I have paid for. Gear, Training, Schools, etc... I have a file for taxes. I use them as tax credits. Trust me.... I'm not at all covered by the State of Florida.

 

[Del Boy]

Good on ya, 5.56. Fine record there.:salute2:

 

[mmarsh]

5.56

Miami Dade is a PUBLIC College correct? You paid $5000, but that wasn't the total cost of your education, that was just YOUR contribution to it. As with all Public schools, the state picked up the rest picked up the rest of the tuition. So I stand with what I said.