After you take all the facts and lay them out your comparing two tanks that are the same. Both are born of the MBT-70, both use the latest technology, both have outstanding armor packages. Other than the fact the M1 has the Leo on numbers it's nothing but a pissing match between allies.

The day an M1 vs. a Leo I'm sure that this whole world will be in a war, and then my concern is not my allies tank, but my enemies tank.

Aside from all this tech talk, the crew is the meat of the tank and in armor combat experience it goes: Israel, the US and, the UK

A tank is only as good as the other parts of the Combined Arms it's supporting.

The Spain Army uses the Leopard tanks and the Cavalry boys love their german "toys".

I think the Leopard is a very good last generation tank, but other tanks like, for example, the Abrams or the Merkawa have been tested in combat, the Leopard, not...

Originally Posted by Spain Marine

The Spain Army uses the Leopard tanks and the Cavalry boys love their "toys".

I think the Leopard is a very good last generation tank, but other tanks like, for example, the Abrams or the Merkawa have been tested in combat, the Leopard, not...

Wrong, actually one Leopard was bombed (big device) by Taliban (i can't quite remember which state... I think it was Sweden...) and the whole crew survived, after that they sent an official thanks to Germany. Maybe anyone remembers the story correctly.

what is "big"? 50 kg? 80 kg? you have to understand that the ones that kill the big boys are usually 150-400 kg of HE.

Originally Posted by FO Seaman

After you take all the facts and lay them out your comparing two tanks that are the same. Both are born of the MBT-70, both use the latest technology, both have outstanding armor packages. Other than the fact the M1 has the Leo on numbers it's nothing but a pissing match between allies.

The day an M1 vs. a Leo I'm sure that this whole world will be in a war, and then my concern is not my allies tank, but my enemies tank.

Aside from all this tech talk, the crew is the meat of the tank and in armor combat experience it goes: Israel, the US and, the UK

A tank is only as good as the other parts of the Combined Arms it's supporting.

Simply well put, both are very good tanks with excellant capabilities but the tank crew and force structure better have good sound training that takes advantage of both vehicles potential.

Ah i found the info it was the 2nd Novembre 2007, ISAF- Afghanistan and it was a canadian Leopard 2 A6M- CAN. Whole crew survived, driver broke his hip. And the tank wasn't destroyed and yould be repaired.
January 5th 2008 Danish Leopards 2A5 were involved in several firefights while supporting british troops. Feb 26th 2008 a danish Leopard 2 was attacked with 2 demolition charges- again the crew survived and only one chain was destroyed again the tank could be repaired. July 2008 again a Danish Leo 2A5DK was attacked by a demo charge, the driver was killed because the tank didn't have the latest Mine protection gear...
So much for no combat experience- those were only the cases I could find...

Didn't find anything about the explosion size...

Originally Posted by ObjSRgtLw

Ah i found the info it was the 2nd Novembre 2007, ISAF- Afghanistan and it was a canadian Leopard 2 A6M- CAN. Whole crew survived, driver broke his hip. And the tank wasn't destroyed and yould be repaired.
January 5th 2008 Danish Leopards 2A5 were involved in several firefights while supporting british troops. Feb 26th 2008 a danish Leopard 2 was attacked with 2 demolition charges- again the crew survived and only one chain was destroyed again the tank could be repaired. July 2008 again a Danish Leo 2A5DK was attacked by a demo charge, the driver was killed because the tank didn't have the latest Mine protection gear...
So much for no combat experience- those were only the cases I could find...

Didn't find anything about the explosion size...

I think that what Germany took as a lessons learned during WW 2 and other armored skirmishes that have taken place through out the world that we cannot use the not seen any action trump card. Give one to me, I would not hesitate to take the fight to the enemy in one.

Originally Posted by SHERMAN

what is "big"? 50 kg? 80 kg? you have to understand that the ones that kill the big boys are usually 150-400 kg of HE.

After all we learned the terrorist are many things but in cases of destruction not entirely dumb- I assume they would use a device fit for penetrating a tank... I could be wrong though- the info must be somewhere out there

not so much a matter of penetration, as a matter of complete and utter destruction. No AFV in the world can withstand a 250 kg charge exploding under it.

The terrorists and Taliban probably see it as a waste of explosives going after the tanks, especially when they're are plenty of unarmoured and lightly armoured vehicles getting around that require a quarter of the explosives and carry more troops inside them.