Leo 2/Abrams vs. Challenger 2

Leopard 2/Abrams vs. Challenger 2

  • Leopard 2/Abrams

    Votes: 16 76.2%

  • Challenger 2

    Votes: 5 23.8%
  • Total voters
    21
  • Poll closed .
Damien435

Damien435

Active member
See here for details.

Ok, because the Leopard 2 and Abrams tied I have decided that they will have to run together. So.

If the Leo 2/Abrams win.
1.Abrams (tie)
1.Leopard 2 (tie)
3. Challenger 2
4. Merkava

If the Challenger 2 wins.
1. Challenger 2
2. Leopard 2 (tie)
2. Abrams (tie)
4. Merkava

So, you decide, which tank(s) do you believe to be the best in the world? The fate of the world is in your hands. You have the power!
 
Last edited:
T-90? I thought it was a failure next to its western counterparts? The only Russian tanks I'd consider for the top slot are the T-80UM2 Black Eagle and T-95, but there's not enough data available on either to issue a proper judgement.

Oh well. If it's going to be a tie, why not include the Challenger 2? Most advanced armor ever.
 
My sense for British hardware is low but the Brits knows how to make a few things between tea time, and so is the Challenger.
 
Until a tank has battlefield action in harsh conditions then you just don't know how it will perform and what is spoken about some of these tanks is just sales talk. Now both the Abraham tank and the Challenger have seen a fair amount of combat. Now as there are three times the number of Abraham tanks than there are Challenger tanks then results can be different. Also the Americans use there tanks in a different manner than the British so it is hard to draw a correct comparison
 
LeEnfield 2 said:
Until a tank has battlefield action in harsh conditions then you just don't know how it will perform and what is spoken about some of these tanks is just sales talk. Now both the Abraham tank and the Challenger have seen a fair amount of combat. Now as there are three times the number of Abraham tanks than there are Challenger tanks then results can be different. Also the Americans use there tanks in a different manner than the British so it is hard to draw a correct comparison
Click to expand...

True. Tactic's, Training, and use of the tank are different. Thats why the Brits still use the HESH round, while we prefer the HEAT round.

I know that the M1 and Chally share alot. Chally use the same FCS as the M1A1.
 
I would pick the Leo 2, and the Chally 2 over the abrams anyday but since I like the Leo 2 more than the Chally 2 I have to pick the Leo 2/Abrams over the Chally 2. Sorry to the Brits.
 
CanadianCombat said:
I would pick the Leo 2, and the Chally 2 over the abrams anyday but since I like the Leo 2 more than the Chally 2 I have to pick the Leo 2/Abrams over the Chally 2. Sorry to the Brits.
Click to expand...

Why not the M1?
 
Cadet Seaman said:
Yes, well the M1A1 nolonger uses that FCS, the new fleet of D's and AIM's have improved and intergrated FCS's.
Click to expand...
The IIE uses a completely different one as well.
 
Cadet Seaman said:
True. Tactic's, Training, and use of the tank are different. Thats why the Brits still use the HESH round, while we prefer the HEAT round.

I know that the M1 and Chally share alot. Chally use the same FCS as the M1A1.
Click to expand...
The reason Americans use HEAT and British use HESH isn't tactical, the Challenger's rifled barrell cannot fire HEAT.

Anywho, I think top 10 tanks should look like this. I know I'm going to get flamed for the T-90M being above the M1A1. I didn't include the Type-90 or Chinese Type-98 because I dont know where they should go.
1. Merkava Mk 4
2. Leopard 2A5
3. M1A2SEP
4. Challenger 2
5. Leclerc
6. T-90M
7. M1A1
8. Challenger 1
9. Leopard 2A4
10. T-84
 
Last edited:
Someone's got to say it.... this thread is stupid. The single biggest factor that would determine the battlefield success of either of these systems is the training and readiness of the crew and the tactical and operational employment of the unit to which they are assigned. Esoteric discussions about which has the better thermal gunsight are completely irrelevent without an assessment of the crew's training and abilities to work as a team.
 
Whispering Death said:
wait, why not make it a 3-way vote?
Click to expand...
Because you (the people of Mil-Forums) voted that the Abrams and Leo 2 were ties, so therefor if you believe that one would beat the Challenger 2 you should also agree that the other would do so. What I am seeing here is a lot of "The Leo 2 would win" which makes me question the outcome of the previous vote.

Also, if we did three way then the Leo 2 and Abrams should tie and that means that the Challenger 2 could get by on a technicality.

The agreement that of the previoius election was that these two tanks were essentially the same tank so therefor if one thinks that the Leo 2 is superior to the Challenger 2 they should also agree that the Abrams is superior to the Challenger 2.

And btw, the latest of the "T" tanks was represented by the Chinese Type98/99 (Which is just a more improved Type-90) and it was quite overwhelmingly defeated by the Merkava.

Insight said:
Someone's got to say it.... this thread is stupid. The single biggest factor that would determine the battlefield success of either of these systems is the training and readiness of the crew and the tactical and operational employment of the unit to which they are assigned. Esoteric discussions about which has the better thermal gunsight are completely irrelevent without an assessment of the crew's training and abilities to work as a team.
Click to expand...

Yes yes yes, you make a good point, now if you could please ignore your statement and imagine if you will that the crew of all the tanks are trained to use the same tactics, went through the same training schools, and are working the same terrain, tank vs. tank. No support elements.
 
Last edited:
Koz said:
The reason Americans use HEAT and British use HESH isn't tactical, the Challenger's rifled barrell cannot fire HEAT.

Anywho, I think top 10 tanks should look like this. I know I'm going to get flamed for the T-90M being above the M1A1. I didn't include the Type-90 or Chinese Type-98 because I dont know where they should go.
1. Merkava Mk 4
2. Leopard 2A5
3. M1A2SEP
4. Challenger 2
5. Leclerc
6. T-90M
7. M1A1
8. Challenger 1
9. Leopard 2A4
10. T-84
Click to expand...

Leopard 2A6 doesn't figure in your list - an oversight or a typo?
 
Damien435 said:
...........Yes yes yes, you make a good point, now if you could please ignore your statement and imagine if you will that the crew of all the tanks are trained to use the same tactics, went through the same training schools, and are working the same terrain, tank vs. tank. No support elements.
Click to expand...

Because that would make the thread even more inane than it already is. The whole discussion is based in school boy fantasy and the overly romantic notions of military equipment propogated through cheap novels and movies. It misses the essence of what turn a bunch of thugs with heavy equipment into a fighting force.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top