Legalize soft-drugs yes or no.

[Marinerhodes]

This is not a discussion of morals though. This is a discussion of the real problems that can arise if soft drugs were to be legalized.

I think you misunderstood what he meant by running rampant. He meant that there are enough legal drugs (prescription drugs that are misused) running rampant. Some include: Viagra, Vicodan, Morphine, Percocet, etc etc.

The enforcement would come with the regulation of quality, quantity, substances incorporated, etc etc.

You would not want some idiot lacing his brand of soft drugs with a harder drugs would you? That is one problem with enforcement. Another is: Who will be authorized to distribute or sell these drugs? Pharmacies only? Your local corner store?

It would be a federally regulated item so not just anyone would be able to buy it for redistribution any more so than they can buy and resell alchohol and cigarettes without a license. Hence, you are back to your local street dealer who can put his own price on the item, which would likely be lower than the regulated price anyway. Then you are right back to illegal distribution of a legal but regulated item.

 

[Ted]

Marinerhodes, you make a fair point that will be a problem for many countries. But we in Holland already have a complete infrastructure! We have our coffeeshops, the illigal weed-farms can be tracked quite easily and turned to good use.
The chain of production to logistics and destribution is already well mapped overhere. Make them legit and make them pay taxes. The street dealer is cut out of the equation (he sell mainly hard drugs anyway and is thus open for the hunting season). The quality will be maintained because the lousy your stash the less customers you have. It would be a normal business, keeping the basic economics rules in mind. If you screw up, your competitor won't! Only the best for the lowest price remains...

 

[5.56X45mm]

Or we can do what I believe the most simple answer.

Declare open season on all druggies. Dealers, users, growers, so on and so forth.

We go to Columbia and BOOM! A flight of F/A-18 drop a couple of naplam bombs on a coco farm. Or we can put a price on their heads. Let a couple of American Mercs in there. My friends and I would sure love to do some exotic hunting in South America.

And here's the best thing. If you're a user and you get arrestted. BAM! Thirty Years in prison. No plea deal, no commuted sentence, nothing!

 

[Rabs]

Or we can do what I believe the most simple answer.

Declare open season on all druggies. Dealers, users, growers, so on and so forth.

We go to Columbia and BOOM! A flight of F/A-18 drop a couple of naplam bombs on a coco farm. Or we can put a price on their heads. Let a couple of American Mercs in there. My friends and I would sure love to do some exotic hunting in South America.

And here's the best thing. If you're a user and you get arrestted. BAM! Thirty Years in prison. No plea deal, no commuted sentence, nothing!

Ditto.

 

[Whispering Death]

That's rediculous 5.56.

We are already having to let murderers, rapists, armed robbers etc. get out on commuted sentences to make room for all the drug law offenders. 1 in 32 Americans is in jail, you are paying for their room/meals at that rate already.

You tell me how much tax money you're going to be paying and how many guys who knock over liquer stores are going to be let free to roam your neighborhood when you give every highschooler with pot a 30 year sentence.

You think this country is too socialist now? Wait till' 1 in 10 Americans are behind bars and you're paying for it. But at least you'll know that no one is smoking dope anymore.



And that's just the thing, you can't do it. You can't illiegalize drugs. So many people do them regardless of whatever prison sentence you say you'll inflict because in their heads "I'll never get caught". If you where actually going to get "tough on drugs" a socialist welfare state would be heaven compared to what America would become.
The best thing to do is legalize soft drug use and decriminalize hard drug use; then you can free up the prison space to put the drug dealings and violent drug criminals in jail.

 

[bulldogg]

Last stats I saw showed that of all industrialised nations the United States has a greater percentage of its population in prison. More convicted felons as a percentage of its population than any nation. This feeds the fire of countries like China that scoff at the US claiming to be the "Land of the Free" when viewed in this light.

I do not think prison is the answer for users. For dealers and distributors yes, as long as it remains a crime. But for users, no, the reason they are using drugs need to be addressed. In my mind, to sentence these people to 30 year prison terms would be no different than returning to the days of sending mentally ill people to asylums and prison. These people are users because for the most part an underlying untreated psychiatric or psychological problem. Treat that and you cure the addiction. Prison will not deter a user as the drive to cure themselves is greater than their drives for food or even sex in most cases.

 

[Rabs]

That's rediculous 5.56.

We are already having to let murderers, rapists, armed robbers etc. get out on commuted sentences to make room for all the drug law offenders. 1 in 32 Americans is in jail, you are paying for their room/meals at that rate already.

Put em in tents. I beleive once this goes into effect the drug rates will drop dramatically.

You tell me how much tax money you're going to be paying and how many guys who knock over liquer stores are going to be let free to roam your neighborhood when you give every highschooler with pot a 30 year sentence.

Thirty years is a bit harsh for a first sentence sure, but one or two is fine. People will get the message thats its not ok to do drugs anymore.

I really like your solution to this WD "If you cant beat em join em."

Another problem I have WD is whats the legal age?
18?
21?

Especially the latter I'd say half of "soft-drug" users are below that age. Then the ones that do start at a young age and then quit later because of on the job drug testing or a plethora of other reasons wouldnt because its legal now. Would we allow our military to use substances, would we allow law enformcement to use such substances? Would employers be allowed to discrimnate between pot smokers and non pot smokers? So many things that would have to be decided. Its science that pot effects mental ability so why should any higher a pot smoker.

http://www.marijuanaaddiction.info/harmful-effects-of-marijuana.htm

 

[bulldogg]

A very logical argument Rabs, well done. You raise some very fine questions.

 

[Ted]

Or we can do what I believe the most simple answer.

Declare open season on all druggies. Dealers, users, growers, so on and so forth.

We go to Columbia and BOOM! A flight of F/A-18 drop a couple of naplam bombs on a coco farm. Or we can put a price on their heads. Let a couple of American Mercs in there. My friends and I would sure love to do some exotic hunting in South America.

And here's the best thing. If you're a user and you get arrestted. BAM! Thirty Years in prison. No plea deal, no commuted sentence, nothing!

Wow 5.56, you really outdid yourself again! I do start to wonder what "land of the free" you have in mind. By the sound of it you like to shoot everybody who doesn't have your way of life. Pretty scary I must admit.

Rabs, you do have some good questions. All I have to say to that is the following. Making it legal doesn't equal using it daily and at all times. Just like drinking, how many military personnel or cops do you know that are drunk on the job. But test them on a monday morning for alcohol in their blood and you'll probably find some traces.
Making it legal, makes it discussable, for now it is a tabboo. Of course you can restrict the usage. Everybody knows that being under influence clouds your judgement. But as I said before, how many doctors have you visited who were drunk?

 

[Rabs]

You know Ted for once I agreee with you there are a lot of similarities to drinking.

I agree that something has to be changed, but I just dont beleive legalization is the answer.

Wow 5.56, you really outdid yourself again! I do start to wonder what "land of the free" you have in mind. By the sound of it you like to shoot everybody who doesn't have your way of life. Pretty scary I must admit.

I have a feeling 5.56 is more than capable of defending himself (both online and in person ) but I see nothing in his post about killing those who dont have his way of life. I see a post about killing people that are breaking the law and distrbuteing drugs in America.

 

[Whispering Death]

Thirty years is a bit harsh for a first sentence sure, but one or two is fine. People will get the message thats its not ok to do drugs anymore.

I really like your solution to this WD "If you cant beat em join em."

Another problem I have WD is whats the legal age?
18?
21?

Especially the latter I'd say half of "soft-drug" users are below that age. Then the ones that do start at a young age and then quit later because of on the job drug testing or a plethora of other reasons wouldnt because its legal now. Would we allow our military to use substances, would we allow law enformcement to use such substances? Would employers be allowed to discrimnate between pot smokers and non pot smokers? So many things that would have to be decided. Its science that pot effects mental ability so why should any higher a pot smoker.

http://www.marijuanaaddiction.info/harmful-effects-of-marijuana.htm

Ageing makes you slower both mentally and physically. Not only this, but ageing makes you an exponential risk for serious medical problems. Becomming old is way way worse to an employee's abilities than smoking pot. And yet there are laws prohibiting age discrimination. I assume you want those repealed also? But I don't even have to argue that because the premise is foolhardy. Over 50% of all Americans have used marijuana and yet amazingly it seems that over 50% of Americans are actually productive citizens! In fact, we have a multi-million dollar stock broker who works on wallstreet that smokes 36 marijuana cigarettes a day that the US Government gives him as part of a legalized marijuana law.

And how is the rest of your post different from the failed drug laws of the 80s? We tried it, we are still trying it, and it's failing.

And of course the age limit in my proposal would be 21 just like alchohol. Those caught smoking legalized marijuana underage would be given a "Minor in Posession" just like they would if they where caught drinking beer.

By the way, great "if you can't beat em" rhettoric but on this debate the line of "if it IS broke don't fix it" seems more pogniant.

 

[Mohmar Deathstrike]

In fact, we have a multi-million dollar stock broker who works on wallstreet that smokes 36 marijuana cigarettes a day that the US Government gives him as part of a legalized marijuana law.

I saw him smoke a spliff on the lawn of the Capitol on an episode of Penn &Teller ********!.

However, I think that guys medicinal marijuana may have a low THC content, which means he doesn't get stoned as much as he would smoking some good ole Texas THC.

 

[03USMC]

That's rediculous 5.56.

We are already having to let murderers, rapists, armed robbers etc. get out on commuted sentences to make room for all the drug law offenders. 1 in 32 Americans is in jail, you are paying for their room/meals at that rate already.

You tell me how much tax money you're going to be paying and how many guys who knock over liquer stores are going to be let free to roam your neighborhood when you give every highschooler with pot a 30 year sentence.

You think this country is too socialist now? Wait till' 1 in 10 Americans are behind bars and you're paying for it. But at least you'll know that no one is smoking dope anymore.



And that's just the thing, you can't do it. You can't illiegalize drugs. So many people do them regardless of whatever prison sentence you say you'll inflict because in their heads "I'll never get caught". If you where actually going to get "tough on drugs" a socialist welfare state would be heaven compared to what America would become.
The best thing to do is legalize soft drug use and decriminalize hard drug use; then you can free up the prison space to put the drug dealings and violent drug criminals in jail.

Actually it's the other way around, although the "journalists" at Hightimes don't want you to know it. Drug Offenses are being given plea bargins, suspended sentences, and probation all the time because there is no room for them in Prisons or Jails. To do any real time you have to be a Trafficer or a Manufacturer. Even dealers get off pretty light IMO.Violent Criminals are not being released early to make room for Dime bag Misdemeanor possesssion.

Well since the armed robber probably had a habit anyway. And simple possesssion is at best a book and release on a Desk Summons. That argument is beyond the pale.

Legalize Drugs and you will increase the amount of Drug offenders.

As far as your friends that got popped for weed and Mushrooms. You need new friends. They have a 3.5 GPA and didn't know possession of Cannabis and Mushrooms was illegal? Sorry just because yer Bud's got jacked up for breaking the law is no reason to change the law.

 

[5.56X45mm]

God, how many times do I have to say "NO"!

 

[5.56X45mm]

That's rediculous 5.56.

We are already having to let murderers, rapists, armed robbers etc. get out on commuted sentences to make room for all the drug law offenders. 1 in 32 Americans is in jail, you are paying for their room/meals at that rate already.

You tell me how much tax money you're going to be paying and how many guys who knock over liquer stores are going to be let free to roam your neighborhood when you give every highschooler with pot a 30 year sentence.

You think this country is too socialist now? Wait till' 1 in 10 Americans are behind bars and you're paying for it. But at least you'll know that no one is smoking dope anymore.



And that's just the thing, you can't do it. You can't illiegalize drugs. So many people do them regardless of whatever prison sentence you say you'll inflict because in their heads "I'll never get caught". If you where actually going to get "tough on drugs" a socialist welfare state would be heaven compared to what America would become.
The best thing to do is legalize soft drug use and decriminalize hard drug use; then you can free up the prison space to put the drug dealings and violent drug criminals in jail.

Okay fine, we make the sentences far more harsh for other crimes too. People will stop commiting crime if the punishment is harsh as hell. And if we need to make room in prison.

We can actually put to death those that are sentenced to death. And not this thiry year bull crap like Tookie Williams. I'm talking about something like next week!

Oh and I'm not [aying for crap. Prisoners will work for their food, clothing, and medical care. They wanna eat. They gotta work. And none of the making liceanse plate bull crap too. I'm talking about sweating in the hot sun while working on a overpass in a chain gang. Picking up trash, re-taring roofs, farming, and other crappy jobs.

If a farm owner wants cheap labor. BAM! he can rent a prisoner for fifty cents a day. That prisoner only needs food and water to live. He can live off a tuna sandwhich three times a day. Also, that should solve the whole illegal immigrant issue. Prisoners are cheaper than mexican workers.

 

[Whispering Death]

Okay fine, we make the sentences far more harsh for other crimes too. People will stop commiting crime if the punishment is harsh as hell. And if we need to make room in prison.

Nope, they don't. People always think, "I'll never get caught" and there are a lot of very stupid people out there. Just look in the middle east where they'll cut off your hand, torture you, and kill you for even non-violent crimes. And they still have crime.

As far as your friends that got popped for weed and Mushrooms. You need new friends.

Don't worry, some of my friends are closer than others

 

[FO Seaman]

define "soft-drugs"....

Ditto.................I believe what they told us at DDR suits this, "There is no such thing as soft-drugs".


I heard a story about a man who did "soft-drugs".

He was having a "joint" before he went home for the night, as he walked home he became dizzy and overwhelmed with this sensation of strength and invincibility. As he continue to stagger down the road, he saw a sliding glass door and walked toward it. As he came upon the door, he started to run at the door full-tilt and smashed though it. The owners immediatly called the police, upon arriving at the scene the police called an ambulance for the injured man, the man later died in the hospital due to loss of blood from a laceration from his genital area to his upper chest that the window had caused.

Later invesigation turned up that the man had PCP (a very powerful drug) in his system. The "joint" he had been smoking had been laced with PCP.

 

[5.56X45mm]

There is no such thing as a soft drug.

 

[FO Seaman]

Okay fine, we make the sentences far more harsh for other crimes too. People will stop commiting crime if the punishment is harsh as hell. And if we need to make room in prison.

We can actually put to death those that are sentenced to death. And not this thiry year bull crap like Tookie Williams. I'm talking about something like next week!

Oh and I'm not [aying for crap. Prisoners will work for their food, clothing, and medical care. They wanna eat. They gotta work. And none of the making liceanse plate bull crap too. I'm talking about sweating in the hot sun while working on a overpass in a chain gang. Picking up trash, re-taring roofs, farming, and other crappy jobs.

If a farm owner wants cheap labor. BAM! he can rent a prisoner for fifty cents a day. That prisoner only needs food and water to live. He can live off a tuna sandwhich three times a day. Also, that should solve the whole illegal immigrant issue. Prisoners are cheaper than mexican workers.

Funny you bring up tarring roofs and piking up trash. My dad did that back in the 80's with the Guard, it wasn't a punishment either. I think it was volunteer work they where doing for those that didn't have enough money to fix their homes or have municple utilies.

EDIT:

Also if you look at prisoners today, some have computers, radios, tv's, and lots of other entertainment items that are payed for by tax payers money.

 

[Whispering Death]

I heard a story about a man who did "soft-drugs".

He was having a "joint" before he went home for the night, as he walked home he became dizzy and overwhelmed with this sensation of strength and invincibility. As he continue to stagger down the road, he saw a sliding glass door and walked toward it. As he came upon the door, he started to run at the door full-tilt and smashed though it. The owners immediatly called the police, upon arriving at the scene the police called an ambulance for the injured man, the man later died in the hospital due to loss of blood from a laceration from his genital area to his upper chest that the window had caused.

Later invesigation turned up that the man had PCP (a very powerful drug) in his system. The "joint" he had been smoking had been laced with PCP.

THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT!
If it was legal and heavily regulated like alchohol, you wound't do this and this man would still be alive.
PCP is a hard drug and this guy had no intention of taking it, he just wanted a little pick me up. Instead, because we have no regulation and no accountability for what you have in your hand, this guy is dead and there is no reason he should be.

How many times do you hear about a guy who cracks open a can of Budweiser and goes crazy because it's laced with LSD?