Largest leak in US military history tells the truth on the Afghanistan war

Ummm, okay, whatever you say... No problem by me.

So why should we need soldiers then? If they are just tools to obey orders, whatever outraging and ridiculous... Then soldiers are a nuisance we have to stop.

Would you volunteer to do Mr Bannings jailtime?
We all need to make sacrifices in the name of transperancy right?
Click to expand...
He shouldnt be doing any jail time. All he did is uncover things we are supposed to know. And I dont give a damn if they are classified or not.

Some people in the government have to be under surveillance. In the military too. We have to know what they are doing. And wars arent an exception, if wars were an exception, it would be the exception to tell us more about what they are doing, because human lives and huge ammounts of resources would be at stake.

I would share the medals he deserves for this intrepid action. But it wouldnt be fair, as I did nothing.

The problem with you guys, is that you arent open minded enough. We tell you that a soldier should have the right to leave the battlefield if he thinks it's necessary... And you think that we are asking you to forget about military discipline...

There is a difference between a soldier telling his commanding officer "go to hell, I'm not protecting empty convoys to make a mercenary group richer." and the soldier saying "No, I wont join the mission I wont to sleep and eat pancakes and bring a prostitute to the base."

All over the world we have a lot of agents who are doing horrible things because it's the orders and that they cant disobey.

From the Sheriff who have to kick out families from their homes because they lost their jobs to the soldier who have to go in a BS war because some dumb and corrupt president gave the order.

We can offset all of this by asking the soldiers to follow their sense of duty rather than the fear of prosecution.

And what about the conscience objectors? Some joined the military to protect their country. And when they see that in fact their country is pillaging another weaker one... They want to go home. And they are labeled deserters, traitors etc...

A man have to be free. All actions have to come from free will. And yes, you have to ask for their free will at every order. Not just once the day they are recruited.

It will fix so many problems and it will cause problems to all the criminals in suits and uniforms who lie to young people to send them to war and make money on their backs...
 
No, you are a nuisance that needs to be stopped :lol:
Listen, cut the whole "understanding" crap. You don't like us and never will. Which is okay because I don't like you and probably never will.

If Manning actually leaked information regarding complete and utter wrongdoing on the part of the military's brass, especially against the soldiers they send to the field, then we have a different story. But he has released information regarding lawful orders and sanctioned action. Say what you will about Iraq, but this is also about Afghanistan. THIS is ultimately why the morality of this one man's action is without a question of a doubt in the wrong.
 
Last edited:
LeMask said:
Ummm, okay, whatever you say... No problem by me.

So why should we need soldiers then? If they are just tools to obey orders, whatever outraging and ridiculous... Then soldiers are a nuisance we have to stop.


He shouldnt be doing any jail time. All he did is uncover things we are supposed to know. And I dont give a damn if they are classified or not.

Some people in the government have to be under surveillance. In the military too. We have to know what they are doing. And wars arent an exception, if wars were an exception, it would be the exception to tell us more about what they are doing, because human lives and huge ammounts of resources would be at stake.

I would share the medals he deserves for this intrepid action. But it wouldnt be fair, as I did nothing.

The problem with you guys, is that you arent open minded enough. We tell you that a soldier should have the right to leave the battlefield if he thinks it's necessary... And you think that we are asking you to forget about military discipline...

There is a difference between a soldier telling his commanding officer "go to hell, I'm not protecting empty convoys to make a mercenary group richer." and the soldier saying "No, I wont join the mission I wont to sleep and eat pancakes and bring a prostitute to the base."

All over the world we have a lot of agents who are doing horrible things because it's the orders and that they cant disobey.

From the Sheriff who have to kick out families from their homes because they lost their jobs to the soldier who have to go in a BS war because some dumb and corrupt president gave the order.

We can offset all of this by asking the soldiers to follow their sense of duty rather than the fear of prosecution.

And what about the conscience objectors? Some joined the military to protect their country. And when they see that in fact their country is pillaging another weaker one... They want to go home. And they are labeled deserters, traitors etc...

A man have to be free. All actions have to come from free will. And yes, you have to ask for their free will at every order. Not just once the day they are recruited.

It will fix so many problems and it will cause problems to all the criminals in suits and uniforms who lie to young people to send them to war and make money on their backs...
Click to expand...

Does it ever rain in utopia?

:coffee:
 
It's childish... How can you resume the solution to "I dont like you."

An individual is a lot of things... You can hate some things and like others. I dont like the military as a system. I dont like the individual soldier when he is enforcing some parts of the system I dont like... Because even some parts of the system are necessary...

Well, I just dont want to talk like that... I'm not talking about feelings here.

We are speaking about an ideal we are trying to reach and the coherence of the system.

In the military, there is some "bad apples" that are doing a very bad job. Waste of money and resources, hiding war crimes etc etc...

And these are the first people to ***** and moan when we ask for transparency.

There is indeed some things we have to keep secret. We cant give the enemy our positions so they can drop mortar rounds on us... Even the most retarded people can understand that.

But we have to know about how things are on the battlefield.

If you were sent to the battlefield and that our CO gave you a BS mission... Wouldnt you be glad to see a journalist talking about it? Or do you want to take a bullet trying to protect a drum of oil or a field of opium in Afghanistan?

Transparency is important to keep the whole organisation in check. When the Israelis had problems in the war in Lebanon, their media spoke about it after the war and the people who were responsible had to answer for their mistakes...

And in the next war, the chances are that these mistakes wont happen again...

If the war in Afghanistan isnt going well, we have to know it... So we can change the strategy and the people giving orders...

Give this guy a freaking medal.
 
LeMask said:
Ummm, okay, whatever you say... No problem by me.

So why should we need soldiers then? If they are just tools to obey orders, whatever outraging and ridiculous... Then soldiers are a nuisance we have to stop.


He shouldnt be doing any jail time. All he did is uncover things we are supposed to know. And I dont give a damn if they are classified or not.

Some people in the government have to be under surveillance. In the military too. We have to know what they are doing. And wars arent an exception, if wars were an exception, it would be the exception to tell us more about what they are doing, because human lives and huge ammounts of resources would be at stake.

I would share the medals he deserves for this intrepid action. But it wouldnt be fair, as I did nothing.

The problem with you guys, is that you arent open minded enough. We tell you that a soldier should have the right to leave the battlefield if he thinks it's necessary... And you think that we are asking you to forget about military discipline...

There is a difference between a soldier telling his commanding officer "go to hell, I'm not protecting empty convoys to make a mercenary group richer." and the soldier saying "No, I wont join the mission I wont to sleep and eat pancakes and bring a prostitute to the base."

All over the world we have a lot of agents who are doing horrible things because it's the orders and that they cant disobey.

From the Sheriff who have to kick out families from their homes because they lost their jobs to the soldier who have to go in a BS war because some dumb and corrupt president gave the order.

We can offset all of this by asking the soldiers to follow their sense of duty rather than the fear of prosecution.

And what about the conscience objectors? Some joined the military to protect their country. And when they see that in fact their country is pillaging another weaker one... They want to go home. And they are labeled deserters, traitors etc...

A man have to be free. All actions have to come from free will. And yes, you have to ask for their free will at every order. Not just once the day they are recruited.

It will fix so many problems and it will cause problems to all the criminals in suits and uniforms who lie to young people to send them to war and make money on their backs...
Click to expand...

:bang:
So, is the yellow brick road still there?
 
This is silly, you think it's an utopia?

What kind of person you have to be to think that?

It's like asking for a glass of water in a hot day... Or enjoying a beer once at home after a long day at work...

It's not an utopia, it's just how things are supposed to be.
 
Welcome to the world.. Somedays it rains.
I am seriously concerned for you.
It´s going to be a shock that day when you have to leave your little transparent democracy bubble and get a glimse of the real world.

There is a reason EVERYONE on this here board who ever served in uniform tells you that following orders is vital.(Unless an unlawful one)

WHY are you still discussing this?
Do you not trust the accumalated experience of the militarymembers of this board?
WHY are you on a military board if you don´t want to learn about militarymatters?
You stated you had an understanding that we couldn´t give out coordinates to the enemy because we could get mortared, great.
Now how about we unveil our incursion methods..We might get taken out during the incursions..
And our exfiltration methods, we could get taken out then..

This is what in effect this POS you want to give a medal have done.
Fact is had I been prosecuting he´d get the deathpenalty for endangering his own troops.


I find you an interesting case study of what is going on in the civilian world, that is about as much use as you are.

:coffee:
KJ.
 
Ummm, that wouldnt be coherent.

Is it an authority argument? I dont say that the people on this board are idiots, I dont refuse their experience... But I want to discuss their conclusions and maybe their understanding of the problem/question.

And of course, their extensive experience can be a weakness in a debate. A bit like the military leadership in WWII, they wanted to do things as they did before... And got squashed by German Blitzkrieg...

This is what happens when you refuse to think outside the box.

And I care about ethics... And forcing people to join a battle is criminal.

You have to count on their will to serve and follow orders.
 
Actually he's not a good representation of the civilian world.
I think his sympathies lie with the enemy.
He's just BSing and tap dancing around to get information.
 
Oh, you are with me or against me? huh? nothing in between. Nice.

And you think you can achieve something with this poor attitude?

I have to support you guys blindly, without asking for information or shut up?

And what do you call "the enemy"?

I have a list of principles, some moral values and a list of rights... And I would support anyone in his path to gain and respect these elements... And I oppose anyone who goes against these rules I have.

So if, whatever you call "the enemy", asks for his basic rights, I would support him in gaining that. I dont see people's skin color before choosing my friends...
 
Last edited:
LeMask said:
Oh, you are with me or against me? huh? nothing in between. Nice.

And you think you can achieve something with this poor attitude?

I have to support you guys blindly, without asking for information or shut up?

And what do you call "the enemy"?

I have a list of principles, some moral values and a list of rights... And I would support anyone in his path to gain and respect these elements... And I oppose anyone who goes against these rules I have.

So if, whatever you call "the enemy", asks for his basic rights, I would support him in gaining that. I dont see people's skin color before choosing my friends...
Click to expand...

Noo you are very welcome to ask questions, and ask for clarification just as most members on here do.
And If I am interested in your opinion I will ask you for it same as you do me and/or the other service members here.

What your moral principles are I couldn´t care less.
Just remember that at somepoint someone has died to give you the right to have all the moral principles you think you might need.

You have your own rules?
Do you enforce them yourself?

As for choosing friends.. I go for color.. Black, Brown, Green, Blue and Gray are in most cases the color of their uniforms.
Because they are the ones that put their boots in the sand so people can have very lofty moral principles.

What I object to is people trying to hurt my friends, either by spreading classified information or by condoning such action.
And per your own statements you want to give a medal to such a man.

You sleep well tonight, and know that you are reasonably safe because of the men you want dead.

//KJ.
 
Last edited:
Well, still a little silly, but you are talking...

First things first... I dont want them dead. But I dont agree on some points.

What we are talking about here is that some informations shouldnt be classified. Some informations HAVE to be classified. Others should be available to the public as the public is supposed to be ruling.

Representation isnt an advantage we give to the elected officials, it's a responsability we give them and they are supposed to give results.

This is democracy...

And you are right, I dont really enforce them myself... So maybe I should shut up and act like a slave, make my money, pay my taxes and just shut up...

Yeah, a soldier died to give them these rights. And guess what? I'm not going to forget his sacrifice and I'm going to speak my mind and give the finger to the government when I think it's necessary.

What I object to is people trying to hurt my friends, either by spreading classified information or by condoning such action.
And per your own statements you want to give a medal to such a man.
Click to expand...
And do you think that this guy leaked this data to put people in harms way?

Researching truth is an important process, and it saves lives... And it gives meaning to our lives. At least, we are not living a big fat lie.

And what about the lives he saved? Think about all the soldiers who were killed by angry afghans because we allowed mistakes to happen on the field? Because we allowed some people to cover up their failures...
 
LeMask said:
Researching truth is an important process, and it saves lives... And it gives meaning to our lives. At least, we are not living a big fat lie.

And what about the lives he saved? Think about all the soldiers who were killed by angry afghans because we allowed mistakes to happen on the field? Because we allowed some people to cover up their failures...
Click to expand...

You are a f*cking moron.
I am all for having folks be given accurate information so they can do their work right but NOT delivering this sort of information to the enemy.
How would you like it if someone gave out your credit card information in order to save you money by making your spending more transparent?
Seriously, you need a reality check.
Go sleep with Taliban. I heard they enjoy warm arses of pansies like you.
 
Everyone is jumping up and down about the info being on a website, yet I've hardly heard anyone commenting about the supplier of the info. If this material wasn't posted on this site, there is a better than even chance that it would have come to light via one or more of the scandal rags around the world anyway. The mole is the major problem, not the fact that the info is on some publicly accessible website.

What is the actual percentage of anger over genuine security issues, as against covering up likely embarrasment over major stuffups made by a number of agencies, lets be honest. The first stuffup being the lack of security that allowed this info to be taken from it's proper place.
 
Actually there was a fair bit of discussion about the mole on this thread.
At the end of the day it seems like a failure of leadership and a system that makes it too difficult to dispose of non hackers.
 
Eh Can of a Man, you are the one needing a reality check...

Okay, maybe I'm missing something... give me one example... I dont see how the Taliban could use these information to kill anyone. Name this "sort" of information so we can know what we are talking about... Even a gross description might give us a little insight about what you are talking about.

And check your language buddy. I'm not some of these savages you hang out with. I dare you to use this kind of language in front of me. I would smash your teeth in for less than that...

Only scum speaks like that... Speak like a grown up or get lost...
 
And btw, maybe I'm not getting something here, but I thought there really was nothing new to the leaked info? that "we've known this stuff for years?" so what's the big hullaballoo about this info endangering people?
 
A Can of Man said:
You are a f*cking moron.
I am all for having folks be given accurate information so they can do their work right but NOT delivering this sort of information to the enemy.
How would you like it if someone gave out your credit card information in order to save you money by making your spending more transparent?
Seriously, you need a reality check.
Go sleep with Taliban. I heard they enjoy warm arses of pansies like you.
Click to expand...
Whatever one thinks about the leaking of those docs, fact is that at least Wikileaks made sure to strip the reports from crucial data as informant names/identifiers etc. so as not to endanger PERSEC. So, the threat of augmenting the personal risk or even sacrificing those people through publishing the docs should not really be the base of the discussion as it is factually wrong, nobody is directly endangered by the published docs as far as I can see.

Rattler
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top