Krav Maga and Ninjutsu
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
Yes I did Krav Maga and I think it's excellent.
I'll do it again once I'm back in the US and have the money!
Krav is probably more effective than Ninjitsu but don't take my word for that because I don't know Ninjitsu that well. But I say this because KM was and is developed by the Israeli military. The moves are fully executable while wearing combat boots, the moves are simple and effective.
I have about 7 or 8 years of Tae Kwon Do and I have 1 year of Krav Maga but if I ever got into any serious trouble I would turn to my Krav Maga training.
Hope that helps.
I'll do it again once I'm back in the US and have the money!
Krav is probably more effective than Ninjitsu but don't take my word for that because I don't know Ninjitsu that well. But I say this because KM was and is developed by the Israeli military. The moves are fully executable while wearing combat boots, the moves are simple and effective.
I have about 7 or 8 years of Tae Kwon Do and I have 1 year of Krav Maga but if I ever got into any serious trouble I would turn to my Krav Maga training.
Hope that helps.
Thanks! Yeah, I think it did help a lot. I don't see TKD being really effective in combat, I've seen it a little and a friend of mine is about to get a black belt, it's a very nice sport but not really a martial art.
I think ninjutsu might be effective as well, it depends on which ryu you do (some were developed for fighting while wearing armor) but I think Krav Maga (even though I don't really know it) has a little edge over it since it focuses so much on training under stress etc.
Thank you
Regards,
Il
I think ninjutsu might be effective as well, it depends on which ryu you do (some were developed for fighting while wearing armor) but I think Krav Maga (even though I don't really know it) has a little edge over it since it focuses so much on training under stress etc.
Thank you
Regards,
Il
major liability
Active member
Plain old boxing is ALWAYS helpful, especially if you don't need to kill the guy.
Wolf
Active member
Ninjutsu may help, conceptually, in stealth-based, close proximity situations; Infiltration.
It is not a "tough guy's" martial art, nor is it a sport.
Ninjutsu is dirty, fast, and simple.
With that said, I would think that any extra training would help a soldier in a combat situation.
13th, from what I've read and watched about Krav Maga, it is somewhat similar to Ninjutsu.
It is not a "tough guy's" martial art, nor is it a sport.
Ninjutsu is dirty, fast, and simple.
With that said, I would think that any extra training would help a soldier in a combat situation.
13th, from what I've read and watched about Krav Maga, it is somewhat similar to Ninjutsu.
Pale Rider
Active member
Some form of Martial arts is always good to know, but if you get that close to your opponent because you have been overrun in combat then someone F_cked the dog and you will most likely be in a world of Sh_t. Kevlar helmets, entrenching tools and the stock of your weapon should be used.
As an instructor for several years of military hand-to-hand/close combat I would pick Krav Maga over Ninjutsu in a combat situation any day since Krav Maga is designed just for that and Ninjutsu isn't..
In my experience it also takes a LOT of training (black belt+++) to make a "civilian" martial art combat effective since most of them are designed for half-contact, showing off patterns etc. and the techniques requires a lot more training to master than Krav Maga and other military hand-to-hand/close combat forms since they are designed as brutal as possible without the need of too many fancy moves and high kicks/jumps..
The "worst" soldiers I teach in military close combat are those who have a green belt (or others below black) since they're so "stuck" in their patterns and "programmed" moves so it takes quite a lot of training to un-learn those "bad habbits" and adapt them to the military fighting styles.
(and they almost always thinks that their fighting style is the best since they've trained for AT LEAST 3 years... Until we prove them wrong.)
Yeah, I'm bad, I know..
In my experience it also takes a LOT of training (black belt+++) to make a "civilian" martial art combat effective since most of them are designed for half-contact, showing off patterns etc. and the techniques requires a lot more training to master than Krav Maga and other military hand-to-hand/close combat forms since they are designed as brutal as possible without the need of too many fancy moves and high kicks/jumps..
The "worst" soldiers I teach in military close combat are those who have a green belt (or others below black) since they're so "stuck" in their patterns and "programmed" moves so it takes quite a lot of training to un-learn those "bad habbits" and adapt them to the military fighting styles.
(and they almost always thinks that their fighting style is the best since they've trained for AT LEAST 3 years... Until we prove them wrong.
)Yeah, I'm bad, I know..
Wolf
Active member
KM includes gun melee techniques, does it not?
If so, KM is probably a better option for a soldier to adopt.
I understand it is deadly and straight to the point.
As a student, and son of a Ninjutsu practitioner, I can personally say that Ninjutsu is not far from KM in that respect.
In Ninjutsu, you are taught to dodge before you block, because their doctrine emphasizes the importance of simply not being there. This extends not only to physical agility, but to wisdom in decision making. (This is just some info I'm throwing out, it may not have any relevance to KM, but moving on~)
After dodging, comes blocks and manipulation of the human body; for example: finger locks, pressure points, etc. -- which usually subsequently lead up to "takedown techniques".
You won't find many of these techniques in "sporty" martial arts as they often inflict permenant damage upon proper application, and can be considered "dirty".
I understand KM is similar.
Ninjutsu is one of those less linear martial arts.
"Fancy", unnecessary movements means getting pummeled in sparring (Pain is a good teacher).
You must take into consideration, of course, that deep down, Ninjutsu is a stealth-based martial art...
----
While we're on this subject...
I was told that it is best to not disclose any martial arts experience to a DI's because it may attract unwanted attention. Is this true?
If so, KM is probably a better option for a soldier to adopt.
I understand it is deadly and straight to the point.
As a student, and son of a Ninjutsu practitioner, I can personally say that Ninjutsu is not far from KM in that respect.
In Ninjutsu, you are taught to dodge before you block, because their doctrine emphasizes the importance of simply not being there. This extends not only to physical agility, but to wisdom in decision making. (This is just some info I'm throwing out, it may not have any relevance to KM, but moving on~)
After dodging, comes blocks and manipulation of the human body; for example: finger locks, pressure points, etc. -- which usually subsequently lead up to "takedown techniques".
You won't find many of these techniques in "sporty" martial arts as they often inflict permenant damage upon proper application, and can be considered "dirty".
I understand KM is similar.
Ninjutsu is one of those less linear martial arts.
"Fancy", unnecessary movements means getting pummeled in sparring (Pain is a good teacher).
You must take into consideration, of course, that deep down, Ninjutsu is a stealth-based martial art...
----
While we're on this subject...
I was told that it is best to not disclose any martial arts experience to a DI's because it may attract unwanted attention. Is this true?
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OORAH
Active member
I've also taught martial arts for several years, mostly to teens and adults. I have a 2nd Dan black belt in TKD, and i think its a great basis for a martial arts training, but a HORRIBLE self defense/combat art. TKD is mainly the "sport" area of the martial arts. it looks nice and pretty, but wont do much to save your life.
I trained extensively in KM up with some guys in Canada, and I think its one of the better combat arts. It teaches you to react with whatever you have. fist. knife, shovel. whatever you have is what you use. I think thats more important to survival that learning set defense moves. recognizing a threat, and responding to that threat is critical. all to often, i have seen people in training get punched or kicked because they tried to remember a specific block or combo that they had perfected. I always tried to teach to REACT, and then go from there.
I trained extensively in KM up with some guys in Canada, and I think its one of the better combat arts. It teaches you to react with whatever you have. fist. knife, shovel. whatever you have is what you use. I think thats more important to survival that learning set defense moves. recognizing a threat, and responding to that threat is critical. all to often, i have seen people in training get punched or kicked because they tried to remember a specific block or combo that they had perfected. I always tried to teach to REACT, and then go from there.
Yeah, that was my experience with Ninjutsu, too. I'm just a seventh kyu but I know some stuff about Ninjutsu, because I used to do some extensive research on that subject.
It does lack "fancy" and not necessary moves.
Totally agree. I never did TKD, but I've seen it several times and a friend of mine is about to get his black belt, it looks nice and the sporty spirit is good but totally uneffective in a real combat situation.
Regards,
Il
PS: Thanks for the info everybody!
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
I did Tae Kwon Do for about 8 years and I'll tell you it in itself is a horrible fighting system.
What it does really well is help condition you because I think it's just about the most inefficient way to take down a person.
What it does really well is help condition you because I think it's just about the most inefficient way to take down a person.
StevenPreece
Active member
I've trained in martial arts for some years now (Ninjutsu) and have trained with all kinds of people from all walks of life. When I was a bootneck (a Royal Marine Commando) I was taught that you should never underestimate anybody or any martial art and I don't. I've always been quite skilled in looking after myself and have a lot of experience in this arena. However, with this experience I have learned that martial arts don't make you invincible, they just mean you have a better chance. More otions you could say and undoubtedly more control, which was one of the main things I drew from it. If you can find the time and opportunities to take up martial arts, boxing etc, I would recommend you do.
Over the years I did Boxing, Jujitsu (both in the marines), Aikido and I eventually settled on Ninjutsu.
At the end of the day this helps to build your confidence and adds things to your tool box that you may need one day in the face of adversity.
Also: In Ninjutsu, we don't look at Blackbelt as being a high level, we look at it as being the next step on the rung of the ladder. i.e. you have mastered the basics. Its after this grade that your learning and understanding of Ninjutsu really takes off.
Martial Arts are not everybody's cup of tea but they do come in handy from time to time.
All the very best
Steve
_________________
Steven Preece
Author of "Always A Marine" & "Amongst The Marines"
Over the years I did Boxing, Jujitsu (both in the marines), Aikido and I eventually settled on Ninjutsu.
At the end of the day this helps to build your confidence and adds things to your tool box that you may need one day in the face of adversity.
Also: In Ninjutsu, we don't look at Blackbelt as being a high level, we look at it as being the next step on the rung of the ladder. i.e. you have mastered the basics. Its after this grade that your learning and understanding of Ninjutsu really takes off.
Martial Arts are not everybody's cup of tea but they do come in handy from time to time.
All the very best
Steve
_________________
Steven Preece
Author of "Always A Marine" & "Amongst The Marines"
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A Can of Man
Je suis aware
Black Belt is just the beginning actually. That's the way I've always seen it. Except with Tae Kwon Do where I had to repeat the belts over and over because I moved before I made black belt. So I just became an insanely skilled yellow belt a few times. Thank God I finally got my long overdue black belt here.
But I'll tell you that between 8 years of Tae Kwon Do and 1 year of Krav Maga, I'd use the 1 year of Krav Maga.
But I'll tell you that between 8 years of Tae Kwon Do and 1 year of Krav Maga, I'd use the 1 year of Krav Maga.
StevenPreece
Active member
Preference
I appreciate your point of view.
However, all skills you learn go into your subconscious mind. In ninjutsu we come from "nomind". That means you don't know what you are going to do until something happens to you. Then you react. Its a bit like driving a car, in that, no one tells you to indicate or even to brake when somebody steps out. It just comes from your subconcious. You know what to do and you do it by reacting to the situation. Consequently, if somebody says what would you do if I grabbed you like this!!!, the answer should be, I don't know until you do it. This is based on the fact that we are all different and what works on one person may not necessarily work on another.
Best Regards
Steven Preece
I appreciate your point of view.
However, all skills you learn go into your subconscious mind. In ninjutsu we come from "nomind". That means you don't know what you are going to do until something happens to you. Then you react. Its a bit like driving a car, in that, no one tells you to indicate or even to brake when somebody steps out. It just comes from your subconcious. You know what to do and you do it by reacting to the situation. Consequently, if somebody says what would you do if I grabbed you like this!!!, the answer should be, I don't know until you do it. This is based on the fact that we are all different and what works on one person may not necessarily work on another.
Best Regards
Steven Preece
StevenPreece
Active member
Ninjutsu
I am familar with them but haven't met them personally. Do these two have a dojo in Manchester? I believe they're man and wife and both are highly experienced and graded.
Personally, I trained with Dennis Bartram for quite some time. He's a 15th Dan now, although he was a 10th Dan when I first met him. I also studied Amatsu with him for a year. That's the healing therapy that goes with Ninjutsu. Hatsumi is the leading authority in the world for it, Dennis Bartram is one of the leading authorities in the UK for it. Brin and Natasha are familiar with him.
I also trained with Mike McNeilly in Liverpool for a while. Mike is absolutely supurb with weapons, especially swords and sticks.
I now train with a guy called Keith Watkins, who trained with Dennis for 20 odd years before going his own way.
I find all the styles are different, but each dojo takes something different from the ancient nine scools of taijutsu.
Sorry to mention my books, but I did write about my journey in Ninjutsu in my second book, Always A Marine. I didn't go to Ninjutsu to learn how to fight, I went there to learn how to stop it and to control the aggression I had during my time as a Royal Marine.
http://archive.thisisthenortheast.co.uk/2005/12/16/214137.html
Best Regards
Steven Preece
I am familar with them but haven't met them personally. Do these two have a dojo in Manchester? I believe they're man and wife and both are highly experienced and graded.
Personally, I trained with Dennis Bartram for quite some time. He's a 15th Dan now, although he was a 10th Dan when I first met him. I also studied Amatsu with him for a year. That's the healing therapy that goes with Ninjutsu. Hatsumi is the leading authority in the world for it, Dennis Bartram is one of the leading authorities in the UK for it. Brin and Natasha are familiar with him.
I also trained with Mike McNeilly in Liverpool for a while. Mike is absolutely supurb with weapons, especially swords and sticks.
I now train with a guy called Keith Watkins, who trained with Dennis for 20 odd years before going his own way.
I find all the styles are different, but each dojo takes something different from the ancient nine scools of taijutsu.
Sorry to mention my books, but I did write about my journey in Ninjutsu in my second book, Always A Marine. I didn't go to Ninjutsu to learn how to fight, I went there to learn how to stop it and to control the aggression I had during my time as a Royal Marine.
http://archive.thisisthenortheast.co.uk/2005/12/16/214137.html
Best Regards
Steven Preece
Wolf
Active member
I had been led to believe that belts, and things of the sort - ranking systems - were unnecessary in Ninjutsu.
If I do have a rank, It has been kept out of my knowledge.
However, It is true, I agree, martial arts is about control and understanding.
It doesn't guarantee victory; it simply increases your chance of success.
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Yeah, Brin and Natasha are married. When I'm not wrong I think their dojo is in Liverpool. I had the opportunity to practice with them a few times, since my master is a student of Brin and they both visit Berlin at least once a year, and I'm gonna tell you they are AMAZING! The way Brin teaches techniques is unbelievable, and he does something and downs his opponent, and you think "wow, that was amazing, I got it" he points to his feet and just then you realize he's got an oni kudaki with his feet.
I was amazed by both of them.
Next time I meet Brin I'm gonna ask him how he beat Ashida Kim, because I was told that's a pretty funny story
I haven't heard of any of your masters, but I'm not really that good in knowing people (hey, I love football but I know very few players).
Regards,
Il
PS: There is a belt system in ninjutsu, but it really is not that important
I was amazed by both of them.
Next time I meet Brin I'm gonna ask him how he beat Ashida Kim, because I was told that's a pretty funny story
I haven't heard of any of your masters, but I'm not really that good in knowing people (hey, I love football but I know very few players).
Regards,
Il
PS: There is a belt system in ninjutsu, but it really is not that important
Wolf
Active member
I understand.
A system has been brought-up a few times during my training, but I haven't heard enough of it from my Sensei(s) to understand it's complete structure.
I shall investigate. Thanks.