Korea's alliance to the US in relation to China - Page 4




 
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Boots
 
December 17th, 2004  
CABAL
 
 
I did not misunderstood. I misinterpreted your vague statement a while ago. If there is a Cold War Perception, then the Cold War will exist. Don't you agree?
December 17th, 2004  
godofthunder9010
 
 
The East Asia Cold War (or what is left of it) is quite different of course. There balance of power if very different -- China is overwhelmingly stronger than any of their neighbors in most things. The USA and its allies in SE Asia are not in a very strong position militarily -- compared to where NATO in Europe was that is.

Also, the USA and Europe have a lot of cultural connections that don't really exist between East Asia and the USA. Americans tend to not pay as much attention to East Asia as a result. Its completely logical that East Asia would feel less connected to the USA either.
December 17th, 2004  
Archit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by godofthunder9010
Also, the USA and Europe have a lot of cultural connections that don't really exist between East Asia and the USA. Americans tend to not pay as much attention to East Asia as a result. Its completely logical that East Asia would feel less connected to the USA either.

Agree!
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Boots
December 17th, 2004  
PLAbuddy
 
china and korea have great relationship in the past,
we aid korea twice( maybe more, but i dont know) agaist Japan's invasion in the past,
we have close cultural ties and economic ties in the past too

it is sad to see that we r kind of enemies now
December 17th, 2004  
A Can of Man
 
 
Elaborate.
Plus, I'm not suggesting anything rash. There will be economic cooperation, trade, travel etc. Just no formal alliance forming. At least not until China has demonstrated fully over a long period of time that it is a country that can be trusted. However, the issues going on with Japan, especially with the submarine incident and the incident with the Spratleys makes any reasonable neighbor nervous and skeptical.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Archit
It is a bad,stupid thing to S.Korea if it take China as its enemy!
Yeah this has happened ... I think twice as well. Though I'm not sure how many times exactly. I think once during that war that took place around the late 1500s and very early 1600s against Japan. The Koreans won at sea and the Japanese guys who went real north ran into the Chinese forces. I believe the other time was Shilla's alliance with China. Though this is actually a moment in history where many Koreans frown upon Shilla. Shilla were a rather corrupt and incompetent kingdom but somehow successfully cut a deal with the Chinese and took down the stronger empire of Koguryo and united Korea under Shilla.... where in afterwards it was all hell and southern Manchuria was lost to the Chinese pretty much forever. If there's another incident of China coming to Korea's aid against Japan's invasion I don't know. I have to admit though, Korean school books probably don't emphasize the Chinese part of these conflicts enough.
And our relationship wasn't always that great. The tribute system sucked and I don't think people enjoyed having to pay taxes for both their own kingdom or fiefdom and also one to the Chinese.
Plus you guys did your little invading too. According to non-Korean scholarly sources, Korea has been (I think the time frame was in the past thousand years) involved in at least 900 wars. There were only two of them which were invasions... both against Japan under the command and orders of Kubilai Khan. Japanese invasions on Korea were not frequent, and only two invasions were of any real significant scale... 1600 and 1910. That leaves the barbarians and the Chinese. So just keep in mind it wasn't rosy as you believe.
Being enemies to the scale we are or were 10 years ago is a product of the Cold War, which never really disappeared in East Asia, and looks to continue to a certain extent with China's neighbors being skeptical of China politically and militarily.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PLAbuddy
china and korea have great relationship in the past,
we aid korea twice( maybe more, but i dont know) agaist Japan's invasion in the past,
we have close cultural ties and economic ties in the past too

it is sad to see that we r kind of enemies now
December 17th, 2004  
FlyingFrog
 
Not very sure now, when was the last time Chinese troops went to help Koreans? I believe it was sometime later in 1890 or so? That time China lost to Japanese troops in Korea, hence Korea was soon later being colonized by Japan.

And at that time, on Korean national flag it was written: The Korea which belongs to Great Qing Empire. I have a picture of that flag, but cannot find it now.

Maybe it is about this:
http://www.koreaaward.com/korea/hist...ization_04.htm
December 17th, 2004  
PLAbuddy
 
lol..Flying Frog..that korean dude will not be happy to see wut u have just said, he is a pretty proud korean, doesn't like the part of history in which koreans pay money to china.

anyways, the relationship between china and korea in the past among common civilians were pretty good i think, close trading relationship,
also a lot ppl from korea came to china to study something like that..

actually
according to history, korean ppl came from central china about 3000 years ago, something like that..i think
December 18th, 2004  
A Can of Man
 
 
Not central China, central Asia. Koreans by in large came from the Mongolia kind of area. This is why there is a "brotherhood" relation between Turkey and Korea. if that ever puzzled you, Turks and Koreans used to be neighboring people. Koreans went south east, Turks went west.
That's the vast majority of Koreans.
There are those who trace lineage from various parts of China... I believe my lineage personally goes to north western China. So to say most Koreans come from central China would actually be incorrect. But if you said some Koreans trace their lineage to central China, that would be true. Of course that was about 30 generations ago or something.
Unless of course you actually claim central Asia of being yours to begin with... then it becomes a whole different ball game.

The thing about "Choson belongs to the Qing empire" is what I'm talking about. No one wants that... except perhaps the Chinese. In no cercumstance will the USA require us to have "Korea belongs to the United States" embrodered on our flag or on anything. Do you understand? Or is this too hard to comprehend?
If you think I am a "proud" Korean, you haven't talked to many Koreans yet. They are too proud... the level of pride that gets people killed and displaces millions of people after losing their country.
I think in terms of good relations, you're talking of the scholar class. But these guys I (along with many others) frown upon because they kept the country weak (jailing inventors and other silly nonsense) and at key moments, sold the rest of us out.

But really if you don't understand why I want Korea to distance itself with China you've obviously not read the stuff you guys write. This is the reason why I believe, because of China, good relations with the United States is essential for South Korea. It helps keep you guys at bay. We can trade, we'll send students... you can send some students too if you want. And don't say there's nothing to learn. After the Cultural Revolution trashed your country, your scholars came to Korea to re-learn Confucianism and bring back copies of Confucian works. But the bottom line is, you stay on your side of the line.

If China posed no foreseeable threat, a close alliance with the US would become less important.
December 18th, 2004  
PLAbuddy
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_13th_redneck
After the Cultural Revolution trashed your country, your scholars came to Korea to re-learn Confucianism and bring back copies of Confuscian works. .
lol..learn confucianism from koreans...that is the biggest jokes i ve ever heard....
even before cultural revolution,there are not much ppl TRUELY understand confucianism...cuz not much ppl can read and truely understand the fundemental texts (written 2000 years ago)

even chinese cant truly understand it, how can koreans know much about it...
why do we have to go to korea learn confuciansim, we got those fundemenatalbooks of confuciansim in china before or after cultrual revolution, we invented confuciam and our scholar have learned confuciam for 2000 years....


by the way....ur turkey-korean theory seems doesn't make sense for me....could u tell me the apoxiamte time when turkeys and koreans split into west and east

my guess is that ur "turkey"ppl near china is probably one of the numerous minority ethic groups exsiting in the north of china for thousand of years (most of them now are in northern part of china, like the famous Five Hus...the five 'babarians".), i dont think they are any related to koreans, the earliest record about them is 2500 years ago something when they attack chinese Western Zhou Dynasty

according to chinese acient text, there was a brother of the first king of Western Zhou dynasty been sent to north china or near manchuria today, and some of them went into korea , that is about 3000 years ago..

so koreans are not turkeys, they are related to chinese

do turkeys and koreans look alike?
December 18th, 2004  
FlyingFrog
 
I believe you are one of the very few anti-Chinese Koreans, but sorry to say, S.Korea will disappoint you, since S.Koreans know their future belongs to a extremly good relation with China.

As you said: ""After the Cultural Revolution trashed your country, your scholars came to Korea to re-learn Confucianism and bring back copies of Confuscian works""
I really think this is big bull. China does send out scholars to different countries, like in this case to S.Korea, NOT to copy back Confucian books, simply to EXCHANGE views about Confusianisme.
Do you really think Chinese communists destroyed Confucian books in culture revolution? Think about it.