Kiwi controversy after SAS war hero Willie Apiata photographed

MontyB

All-Blacks Supporter
I was under the impression that SAS personnel were not usually identified in the media?



Kiwi controversy after SAS war hero Willie Apiata photographed


January 22, 2010 - 10:01AM


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Controversial photo ... An unidentified SAS soldier with Victoria Cross winner Willie Apiata in Kabul. Photo: AFP

Controversy has erupted in New Zealand over the publication of a photograph showing NZ war hero Willie Apiata on duty with fellow SAS soldiers in Afghanistan.
NZ Victoria Cross winner Corporal Willie Apiata was photographed in Kabul earlier this week, moments after a deadly gunfight that left three Taliban militants dead.
The publication of the photo of Corporal Apiata yesterday sparked debate about news media showing members of the SAS - whose identities are normally withheld due to security reasons - on duty.

French photographer Philip Poupin took photographs of Corporal Apiata and two other members of the New Zealand SAS emerging from a building after the attack.
"They were going out of the building where the three insurgents were. They walked towards the Presidential Palace, no car, no Humvee," said Poupin from a hotel room in Kabul. "They were really close to the insurgents ... they were there to fight."
Once the battle subsided, Poupin went inside the building and saw the bodies of three militants. "There were two in one room and one in another. I can't tell you if [the New Zealanders] were directly fighting with the insurgents ... but I could say they were right there."
They were the only Western troops involved in the battle, he said.
Monday night's attack was one of the biggest in Kabul since the war began in 2001. It followed three suicide bombings in the capital.
Earlier this week, NZ Prime Minister John Key described the SAS's role in the battle as "very limited", saying they were "quite a long way back" from the building and fired no shots.
He only confirmed their presence after it was revealed by a New York Times reporter.
Thirteen people died in the battle and at least 70 were injured.
Defence Minister Wayne Mapp said yesterday that the SAS members were not as close to the fighting as Poupin suggested.
"That's the information we have. Both the Prime Minister and I have acted on the advice we've received."
Yesterday Mr Key criticised media for publishing a photograph of Corporal Apiata that clearly showed his face, saying it put the soldier at further risk.

He said Corporal Apiata would probably stay in Afghanistan until the end of his deployment. "He is a very brave New Zealand soldier and he wants to be on deployment."

The NZ Defence Force website features several photographs of Corporal Apiata, and has released photographs of him on duty in the past.

Dominion Post editor Bernadette Courtney said the paper published Corporal Apiata's photograph because it was the first picture of New Zealand SAS troops in Kabul after they responded to a Taliban attack.

It was well known that the SAS was in Kabul, and the prime minister had confirmed the soldier in the picture was Corporal Apiata, she said.

"Corporal Willie Apiata is a war hero who requested to return to Afghanistan. He was paraded in front of the public and the media here and around the world when he won his Victoria Cross.

"He has had extensive media training – $35,000 worth of advice paid for by the Defence Force.

"We don't believe media here have placed Corporal Apiata or any of the other SAS members at any greater risk than they already are."

The New Zealand Herald said today the journalist who broke the story of the SAS joining the counterattack against a Taliban strike was surprised at the reaction in New Zealand.

Afghanistan-based New York Times reporter Dexter Filkins, in a blog posted to the newspaper's website yesterday, wrote: "New Zealand? At war? Who knew? Not a lot of New Zealanders, apparently."

"The news ... that a team of commandos from New Zealand had joined Afghan soldiers at the scene caused a sensation in the little country off the coast of Australia," he wrote.

Filkins said he spotted the New Zealand soldiers as they moved in to Pashtunistan Square, the site of the Taliban attack, which killed five people and wounded at least 70.

He said one told him to: "Get out of here".

"I saw the patch on his arm announcing his country. Others were more friendly. 'Can't talk now, mate,' said another with a smile."

The Herald's assistant editor John Roughan said the paper stood by the decision to use the picture which, he said, had real news value.

"The soldiers were in a public street, in a major city, visible to anybody, wearing their uniforms, carrying their guns, photographed as the New Zealand SAS," he said.

Source: theage.com.au
 
That´s a good photo.

A couple of questions for our Aussie and NZ friends.

1. Is it SOP to reveal an operators name while he is active (or even after ret)?
2. Pictures are obviously not acceptable. But how could a French journalist ID an operator?
3. Will legal action be taken towards the editor that decided to publish unpixled pictures of said troops?

Could someone clear up what the non disclosure agreements and such for operators entail?

//KJ.
 
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That´s a good photo.

A couple of questions for our Aussie and NZ friends.

1. Is it SOP to reveal an operators name while he is active (or even after ret)?
2. Pictures are obviously not acceptable. But how could a French journalist ID an operator?
3. Will legal action be taken towards the editor that decided to publish unpixled pictures of said troops?

Could someone clear up what the non disclosure agreements and such for operators entail?

//KJ.


Not really answering any questions but adding a little more to the information pool, Apiata received a lot of publicity around his VC including photographs and news clips so his face and occupation are already in the public domain.

This kind of amused me though...
Afghanistan-based New York Times reporter Dexter Filkins, in a blog posted to the newspaper's website yesterday, wrote: "New Zealand? At war? Who knew? Not a lot of New Zealanders, apparently."

"The news ... that a team of commandos from New Zealand had joined Afghan soldiers at the scene caused a sensation in the little country off the coast of Australia," he wrote.

I agree with the first bit as New Zealand does not pay a huge amount of attention to the military so it wouldn't surprise me if a sizable number did not know about the SAS in Afghanistan but as such the second statement is a load of crap as most people still hadn't heard about it today and those that did just assumed that why we had sent them there in the first place.
 
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Yep... I typically remember two big events that took place where I was there to see that the reporting wasn't very accurate or at times misleading.
CNN replaying file footage of riots in Jakarta well after they were over.
Then there was that reporter for CNN or whatnot who wrote that SoutH Korea fans were upset and in tears after their loss to Germany in the Semi Finals of the 2002 World Cup. That actually made me doubt the reporter was anywhere near the fans.

So inaccurate reporting. Same as usual.

I'm surprised New Zealand hasn't cut the funding for their SAS.
 
I'm surprised New Zealand hasn't cut the funding for their SAS.

Nah we wouldnt do that they do a great job on next to nothing now, besides we like our soldiers we just don't idolise them.
As I have said in the previous post most people are happy to see them in the news achieving something about the only people up in arms are politicians but most Kiwis would sooner see them dropped on the Taliban from 30,000 feet anyway.

The security issue is really the only point of concern here.
 
i don't think even in new zealand they could get away with that...

the SAS is the only thing in the military that the new zealand public thinks is important.

Originally Posted by KJ
That´s a good photo.

A couple of questions for our Aussie and NZ friends.

1. Is it SOP to reveal an operators name while he is active (or even after ret)?
it is not SOP to reveal their identity while active or retired,but when they have retired they can reveal themselves if they choose to (though anything personnel would want to publish would have to be vetted and active personal would be unable to find a willing publisher) , their identity's are protected by law. though not SOP, willie apiata was revealed to the public (presumably for PR and publicity reasons) after he was to receive the most prestigious military award in the country (unlike other countries highest award, the VC is awarded extremely rarely) . a similar thing happened to SAS trooper mark donaldson of australia. in Australian military mags and other media releases when they contain interviews of personnel who's identity is suppressed they would use a pseudonym in the form of their rank and a letter e.g sergeant X or trooper A...
2. Pictures are obviously not acceptable. But how could a French journalist ID an operator?
his image and name was displayed everywhere throughout the commonwealth, he even has a biography on him (i have read it). so it wouldn't of been difficult with a little research.


3. Will legal action be taken towards the editor that decided to publish unpixled pictures of said troops?
i would imagine that the individual(s) responsible would be criminally prosecuted and the media company, news paper, etc. would have their asses sued off them.

Could someone clear up what the non disclosure agreements and such for operators entail?
i think what i have said covers most of it. but legislation of what can and cant be disclosed is difficult to locate.

//KJ.
 
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i don't think even in new zealand they could get away with that...

the SAS is the only thing in the military that the new zealand public thinks is important.

Are you guessing or do you know something that I as a resident of said country don't know.

New Zealand is not a particularly military orientated nation so we don't go in for parades and flag waving but I can not say I have ever met anyone that would claim the SAS is the only important aspect of the military.

I think you would find that outside the "Green party supporters club" most Kiwis would like to see a far stronger military and from a national defense point of view the combat capability of the Air Force would be given priority.
 
Are you guessing or do you know something that I as a resident of said country don't know.

New Zealand is not a particularly military orientated nation so we don't go in for parades and flag waving but I can not say I have ever met anyone that would claim the SAS is the only important aspect of the military.

I think you would find that outside the "Green party supporters club" most Kiwis would like to see a far stronger military and from a national defense point of view the combat capability of the Air Force would be given priority.

it was the impression i got when i lived their...
then again it was only for 9 months so i may have been mistaken.

and i was more so saying it would be the only part new zealand wouldn't stand for being scrapped or what ever cant think of the right word atm...
they are theone part of the military the government wouldn't dare under cut???
 
Well I am hoping you weren't here studying English.

Tell me outside the Airport you arrived at did you see any NZ military personnel?
 
So you ran into some military police and 22 Battery, I am assuming you were doing something at WelTec as I cant imagine you were at the police training college (although I think that has moved).
 
Here is a follow up...

I'm okay, Apiata tells worried family



By KIRAN CHUG - The Dominion Post
War hero Willie Apiata called his family to reassure them of his safety after the publication of images the Defence Force say could encourage insurgents to target him.
But he had chosen to stay and keep fighting until the end of his deployment, thought to be late next month.
Publication of the photographs, taken moments after a battle that left three Taleban militants dead, prompted an international outcry and shocked the Victoria Cross recipient's family.
Corporal Apiata's aunt Ola Paora said he contacted family members in the Eastern Bay of Plenty settlement of Te Kaha after The Dominion Post published the photograph yesterday amid controversy over the risk to troops once they had been identified.
"He's been in touch though, he's all right."
Prime Minister John Key criticised media for publishing the images, which he said could lead the SAS to change its operations.
He defended publicly naming Corporal Apiata after the photos were published.
Mr Key said he revealed his name after being told by his press secretary that media knew it was Corporal Apiata and planned to ask him to confirm that.
"I'm not going to stand up and lie to the New Zealand media. If it's Willie Apiata, it's Willie Apiata. It was pretty clear to anyone who knows the man that that's who it was."
Although he said Corporal Apiata was in greater danger as a result of the publication of the images, he refused yesterday to explain the specific threat.
Asked why, if there was an enhanced risk to Corporal Apiata, it remained unlikely he would return from duty, Mr Key said it was his choice to stay.
Defence communications director Shaun Fogarty would not comment on whether Corporal Apiata was staying in Afghanistan, but said the publication of the pictures would confirm to the Taleban that he was currently in Kabul.
"Such solid information could encourage insurgents to plan and commit resources to the task of trying to kill or capture him, which previously they would not have."
Images could show weapons configurations, ammunition quantities and communications equipment that could be exploited by adversaries, he said.
Mrs Paora said seeing the photograph "hit hard", but reminded her of her nephew's bravery. "I was afraid. I saw the picture and thought, he's really still in the war. It was a shock."
Though she worried about Corporal Apiata, Mrs Paora said he was due to return home soon, and it was "his choice" to serve in Afghanistan with the SAS.


"He knows how to look after himself."
Lance Beath, senior fellow at Victoria University's Centre for Strategic Studies, said that if publishing a photograph of Corporal Apiata in Afghanistan presented a security risk, the Government would simply bring him home.
"Given the prominence of the corporal in the eye of the New Zealand public, I doubt the Government would willingly take an unnecessary risk."
He said it was clear the Government had deemed that if there was a risk to Corporal Apiata, that risk could be managed without needing to bring him back to New Zealand.Former SAS commander David Moloney, who was deployed to Borneo in 1965 and 1966, doubted it was now safe for Corporal Apiata to remain in Afghanistan.
Canterbury University associate professor of journalism Jim Tully said the Defence Force had released images in the past where troops were identified but they were usually 'warm fuzzy shots" of soldiers carrying out reconstruction work or making friends with children.
He said there were compelling reasons to publish the images, such as that the soldiers were not trying to hide their identities and were taken in a public place, but he did not think they should have been printed.
THE SAS
* Based in Auckland and formed in June 1955, the New Zealand Special Air Service Group is an elite unit set up with the motto "Who Dares Wins".
* After a gruelling selection process, applicants are trained in skills including close-quarter battle, parachuting, mountaineering and diving.
* The SAS has been deployed to countries including Malaya, Borneo, Indonesia, Vietnam and Afghanistan.
* On overseas missions they often operate in tough terrain for long periods of time. They also undertake counter-terrorism work.
* The secrecy surrounding the SAS has been blown by foreign media in recent months, with Prime Minister John Key being forced to discuss the operation this week after a New York Times journalist revealed that Kiwi soldiers were present during the gunfight with the Taleban. In October, Norway's defence chief told an Oslo newspaper the SAS had replaced a Norwegian special forces unit in Kabul. In 2002, the Labour government kept secret the original SAS deployment to Afghanistan but the White House website revealed they were there.
* In October, it was announced that 70 SAS troops would be sent back to Afghanistan in three deployments over 18 months.
* The elite soldiers were sent to Afghanistan three times between December 2001 and November 2005.
* In 2004, one SAS soldier was shot and another was hit by shrapnel during a battle in central Afghanistan. They were the six and seventh SAS troops to be injured in Afghanistan. It was the same year that Corporal Willie Apiata carried a critically injured comrade to safety, making him the 22nd New Zealander to receive the Victoria Cross for bravery while under enemy fire.
* Two SAS soldiers were also hurt in 2007 when one of their guns was fired accidentally.
* In July 2008, New Zealand-born Australian SAS soldier Sean Patrick McCarthy was killed in a roadside bombing in Afghanistan.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/3256684/I-m-okay-Apiata-tells-worried-family
 
I'm guessing that the frogs are still unhappy about what happened to their SDECE agents who sank the Rainbow Warrior, they're shitier than the Chinese and do know how to carry a grudge - I should know, we Brits taught them how to do it!!
 
After scrapping all their jet powered combat aircraft, anything's possible!

^^ a lot of those boys ended up in Oz, with the RAAF and as I understand it, Canada & the UK....

Typical government short-sightedness, scrap fixed wing combat craft, lose the blokes who fly them and then look to outsource......... I know for a fact that at one stage, (in the 90"s) RNZN were seriously considering asking the government to establish a referendum, where the New Zealand people could say whether they wanted a defence force or not...
 
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