Kiwi controversy after SAS war hero Willie Apiata photographed

^^ a lot of those boys ended up in Oz, with the RAAF and as I understand it, Canada & the UK....

Typical government short-sightedness, scrap fixed wing combat craft, lose the blokes who fly them and then look to outsource......... I know for a fact that at one stage, (in the 90"s) RNZN were seriously considering asking the government to establish a referendum, where the New Zealand people could say whether they wanted a defence force or not...


That would have been a major embarrassment for the government, you have to remember that the previous Labour government was extremely liberal and preferred to spend large sums of money on "cultural" crap and as such tried to move the defense forces away from national defense and into some sort of good will organisation for the Pacific.

They have done a lot of good things for New Zealand in terms of a strong economy but defense was not their forte by a long shot.

There is still a hope that the combat wing will return to the RNZAF if the current government are to be believed however they are politicians so it is in the "believe it when I see it" basket.
 
I think throwing money into "culture" other than museums is a total waste of tax payer money.

As for the fixed wing combat aircraft... once it's gone, it's very hard to bring back.
 
I think throwing money into "culture" other than museums is a total waste of tax payer money.
Pretty much. The Maori's in New Zealand and the Aborigine's in Australia who are allowed to live their 'culture' and raise their children the 'traditional way' happen to have life spans 30 years less than the rest of the population and a level of living below some third world nations. Seems like their culture these days include drinking alcohol and doing drugs.
 
Well here is another opinion...
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Media cooperation over the SAS compromises us all

The Chief of Defence force Jerry Mataparae has called for greater cooperation between the media and the defence force in the wake of the publicity surrounding SAS soldier Willy Apiata's presence in Afghanistan.

Now, Mataparae is a man of integrity and I think his call was made with the best of intentions. He accepts there is a public interest in the actions of the SAS but his paramount responsibility is to do what he can from these shores to protect their safety. No one would want to compromise that. The SAS has a job to do. But so does the media - and there is a natural conflict between those two roles that can not, and should not, be compromised by complete cooperation.

There's an old saying that where the papers are full of good news, the jails are full of good men. The same applies to countries where the media reports what the military and the government want them to.

Was a photograph of Victoria Cross winner Willy Apiata walking down a public street in Kabul, decked out in full battle gear, newsworthy? Of course it was. Should the photograph have displayed in the media? Absolutely.

If the SAS and the government was so worried about Willy Apiata being identified in Afghanistan then they have had plenty of time to consider what to do about it. Remember that back in 2007 it was Prime Minister Helen Clark and Defence Minister Phil Goff who publicised the battlefield deeds which won Corporal Apiata the Victoria Cross. The military was all too ready to oblige back then, wheeling out their hero for press conferences and documentaries. In fact the defence force spent $35,000 on media training for Apiata.

To then cry foul when Apiata is photographed decked out in full military kit walking down a public street where the international media is covering the world's biggest war, seems to me naïve.

I'm sure General Mateparae would prefer it if the media had "cooperated" with the defence force: that is, publicised his award of the Victoria Cross and war zone heroics and kept the public in the dark about the SAS's role in Afghanistan. But then that's not how the media works in a democracy and nor should it.

I know that majority of public opinion will probably be against me here. Willy Apiata is seen as a hero, doing a courageous job for his country. The media occupies the opposite space in terms of public esteem and are at best seen as messengers of gloom. Both of those things might be true.

But if the media signs up to a 'cooperation' deal with the defence force are we also signing up to the purpose of the war and the way that war is conducted? It is a war that has now dragged on for nearly a decade - nearly as long as World War 1 and II combined - with no end in sight.

New Zealand combat troops are again fighting in that war and are not doing so in a covert operation. The SAS may often be a clandestine force but right now they are fighting in New Zealand's name in the capital of Afghanistan.

I applaud the government for opening the door - if even just a little - on what the SAS is doing in Afghanistan. But reporting on this should not be on the government's terms alone.

The news media should continue to find out what it can about New Zealand's involvement in the war, even if what it comes up with is outside the comfort zone of the military or their political masters.

http://tvnz.co.nz/politics-news/media-cooperation-over-sas-compromises-us-all-3343500
 
You don't take photos of them and publish them uncensored without full permission of the government/defense ministry.
End of story.
 
Do what they do when they take footage of fat people, below the neck.

Laughing_RoflSmileyLJ.gif
 
You don't take photos of them and publish them uncensored without full permission of the government/defense ministry.
End of story.

This seems to be a Shakespearean moment: "Much ado about nothing."

Full permission of what government?

Don't know what news programs people are watching, but seeing troops patrolling is quite common here in the US.

I don't think that enemies worry to much about the names of people they are fighting.
 
Well the Afghan government let the frog in the country to do his job, and the Afghan government let the kiwi in the country to do his job. Don't want your picture taken in a war zone, wear a balaclava. This picture in no way endangers anyone.
 
Does to some degree as you have a French photographer taking a photo of a New Zealand soldier in Afghanistan, which government needs to give permission?

And which government wants to deny freedom of the press? After so many soldiers have fought to give that freedom to the reporters?
 
I reckon all involved might have made misstakes somewhere along this mess.

The goverment can´t make use of the media for the PR purpose of taking pictures of an active operator getting an award.
Then blame the media for him being news to cover.
He is forever burned and will draw attention to himself and any unit he deploys with in the future.

The publisher of the paper that decided to print an unpixled picture are probably facing criminal charges if I read the answers correct earlier in this thread.

Frog photographer should have known better then to photograph an other nations operator without hiding his identity.
Esp knowing the french rules on the subject.

Right now the SAS are operating in the kit that works and in the open.
That doesn´t mean the need for secrecy won´t arise again in the future.
I have a hard time seing this man being able to operate clandestine again.
Not to mention the risks of reprisals towards him and his family by the current oponents.

IMHO, this whole mess stinks.
//KJ.
 
And which government wants to deny freedom of the press? After so many soldiers have fought to give that freedom to the reporters?
does the US government want the operators of delta force or whatever its called or the green berets or seals named and identified??

this is the type of situation we are talking about...

though slightly different because i don't think the US would of named them in the first place.
 
This seems to be a Shakespearean moment: "Much ado about nothing."

Full permission of what government?

Don't know what news programs people are watching, but seeing troops patrolling is quite common here in the US.

I don't think that enemies worry to much about the names of people they are fighting.

I wouldn't be too sure on that. Both the Taliban and Iraqi Insurgents where trying to use social communities like "Myspace" to find out information about personnel in theater, one reason the forum rules stress OPSEC and PERSEC. They regularly scour the net for intel.

In addition especially in a place like Afghanistan, some one who becomes overly popular with the media can become a tasty target, and maybe even a figure head for cash payout if you can kill him/her, all supplied by the Taliban. Lots of cash flows through Afghanistan, all that opium. They know the death of someone like Apiata would kill morale in the States, (they like posting in Youtube for some reason) gives the notion that if our "super soldier" can die then there might be a chance we can lose, but that's always the case, especially with Iran and it's posturing, damn SS-N-22's.

But, as said it is a journalists right to photo as he wishes, just make sure your not in his LOS when he starts snapping away.
 
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blah, blah, blah...
(not directed at anyone what i originally said is now irrelevant)
 
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Permission should come from the government the soldier works for. In this case, the government of New Zealand.
They were wrong to parade him but that photo confirms where he is among others.

Freedom of Press you say Chupike? Is the United States willing to allow journalists from all countries to come and take photos and videos of its top secret facilities in the United States, along with the names and faces of key scientists and other staff working in them? After all, the public, and perhaps the world should have the right to a free press and free information. Isn't that right? :rolleyes:
 
Permission should come from the government the soldier works for. In this case, the government of New Zealand.
They were wrong to parade him but that photo confirms where he is among others.

Freedom of Press you say Chupike? Is the United States willing to allow journalists from all countries to come and take photos and videos of its top secret facilities in the United States, along with the names and faces of key scientists and other staff working in them? After all, the public, and perhaps the world should have the right to a free press and free information. Isn't that right? :rolleyes:


1st Amendment and FOIA for everyone! /sarc
 
I reckon all involved might have made misstakes somewhere along this mess.

The goverment can´t make use of the media for the PR purpose of taking pictures of an active operator getting an award.
Then blame the media for him being news to cover.
He is forever burned and will draw attention to himself and any unit he deploys with in the future.

The publisher of the paper that decided to print an unpixled picture are probably facing criminal charges if I read the answers correct earlier in this thread.

Frog photographer should have known better then to photograph an other nations operator without hiding his identity.
Esp knowing the french rules on the subject.

Right now the SAS are operating in the kit that works and in the open.
That doesn´t mean the need for secrecy won´t arise again in the future.
I have a hard time seing this man being able to operate clandestine again.
Not to mention the risks of reprisals towards him and his family by the current oponents.

IMHO, this whole mess stinks.
//KJ.

The thing I don't get is that they hid the other guys identity so I am assuming there is some level of thought that says his name and photo are in the public domain.

On the whole I agree and would imagine this is pretty much the end of his operational career.
 
does the US government want the operators of delta force or whatever its called or the green berets or seals named and identified??

this is the type of situation we are talking about...

though slightly different because i don't think the US would of named them in the first place.

The soldiers were named by the journalist. US reporters would do the same no matter what country the soldiers were from. You guys are acting like these military troops are spys or secret agents, they are not.

Their "cover" has not been blown.

I wouldn't be too sure on that. Both the Taliban and Iraqi Insurgents where trying to use social communities like "Myspace" to find out information about personnel in theater, one reason the forum rules stress OPSEC and PERSEC. They regularly scour the net for intel.

In addition especially in a place like Afghanistan, some one who becomes overly popular with the media can become a tasty target, and maybe even a figure head for cash payout if you can kill him/her, all supplied by the Taliban. Lots of cash flows through Afghanistan, all that opium. They know the death of someone like Apiata would kill morale in the States, (they like posting in Youtube for some reason) gives the notion that if our "super soldier" can die then there might be a chance we can lose, but that's always the case, especially with Iran and it's posturing, damn SS-N-22's.

But, as said it is a journalists right to photo as he wishes, just make sure your not in his LOS when he starts snapping away.

Being watching way to many spy movies.

As far as "super soldiers" go, sometimes countries keep their war heroes home to parade around for PR. (Like NZ did). Sometimes the soldier wants to go back and do his job.

"death of someone like Apiata would kill morale in the States"

Not going to speak for all the military, but I believe the death of a comrade usually translates into stronger resolve on the part of those serving.
Don't much care what it does about civilian morale at home.

Permission should come from the government the soldier works for. In this case, the government of New Zealand.
They were wrong to parade him but that photo confirms where he is among others.
Whatever, Blah, blah, yada, yada.

I really don't see governments asking for permission from others what should go on in their countries.

Freedom of Press you say Chupike? Is the United States willing to allow journalists from all countries to come and take photos and videos of its top secret facilities in the United States, along with the names and faces of key scientists and other staff working in them? After all, the public, and perhaps the world should have the right to a free press and free information. Isn't that right? :rolleyes:

Pretty much the way it is.:-D

What they don't want the press to see they put things called fences around and mark as government property and don't let journalists have access too.
In what is considered public property the government can not limit the reporters.
Police states like China, North Korea try and keep full control of their press.
Hopefully, the US does not become one of those.

"After all, the public, and perhaps the world should have the right to a free press and free information. Isn't that right?" :rolleyes: quote 13th

Of course, unless you think North Korea is a better choice.:-D:brave:
 
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