Katyusha missiles

[rock45]

Hez




bollah's Deadly Arsenal

For years, the border towns and kibbutzim in the upper Golan section of Israel, near Lebanon and Syria, have been under threat from Katyusha missiles. Cities just a few miles further south -- like Haifa and Tsfat, the crumbling, quiet mountaintop home of Jewish mysticism -- were safe; relying on short-range Katyusha rockets, Lebanese militants had the ability to sew terror only twelve miles into Israel. That changed on Thursday, when Hezbollah launched a new weapon, the Ra'ad rocket, which hit Tsfat and, for the first time, Haifa, 20 miles from the border. 220,000 Israelis stayed in bomb shelters last night to avoid the missiles, Ha'Aretz reports.

The exact make-up and configuration of these weapons is unclear. Some sources call it a modified anti-tank rocket; others a cruise missile. Range estimates vary from 120 to 350 kilometers, or more. One report calls it a 122mm projectile. Hezbollah claims the Iranian-made "rocket is of 333 mm in diameter and has a warhead of 100 kilograms."
Hezbollah's arsenal is likely filled with even deadlier weapons. Israel believes the terrorist group "has missiles that can hit most of Israel, and which could even strike Be'er Sheva [deep in Israel's southern, Negev desert] under optimum conditions," Ha'Aretz notes.

Iran supplied Hezbollah with solid-fuel, Zelzal-2 missiles with a 200-km range, but these are not very accurate, since they do not have a self-guidance system.
The Zelzal-2 missiles, intended to strike broad targets such as communities and cities, are equipped with explosive warheads weighing up to 600 kilograms...
Hezbollah's original Katyusha rockets had a range of 12 kilometers to 22 kilometers. At a later stage, it obtained Iranian Fajar-3 and Fajar-5 rockets, with a range of 45 kilometers and 75 kilometers, respectively. Hezbollah did not use these rockets until the current conflict.
​

I was supposed to spend my honeymoon next month lounging around Haifa, hiking in the Golan, maybe spending the sabbath in Tsfat. Now, these Hezbollah weapons have introduced a new calculus: how much fear is my wife willing to take?
(Big ups: Roggio, Umansky)
July 14, 2006 10:09 AM | Missiles | Discuss (47 comments)

http://www.defensetech.org/archives/cat_missiles.html


I saw this in this military blog and thought I would share. Judging from the size of this I would assume it would be difficult to stop. Being this small must be hard to spot as well.





vvvvv

Link

 

[The Other Guy]

Katyusha's are, according to my grandfather, who spend WWII in Eastern Poland, the most terrifying weapon in creation.

 

[major liability]

I wouldn't go to Israel unless it was important to me.

Is it worth it to you?

 

[rock45]

Worth it

No not me you couldn't pay me to go there I didn't write it I just found the blog. In a military point of view that rocket would be difficult to defend against because of its size. Never saw one like that on a home made launcher like that. You could roll that out of a shed fire and drag in back in minutes and unless a UAV or other assets were overhead you'll never see it. I guess artillery spotting radar if setup in the right place and time could give you a area or a rough target. Once some sort of guidance system is put into these basic rockets where they can hit at least a selected area there going to be really dangerous. How to stop the flow to me is the first problem. Ships from Iran can dock at Syrian ports or aircraft like cargo aircraft etc can just fly in the weapons and then just drive it in. Correct me if I'm wrong but Syria location is the key its basically a hub of terror. Can't they be closed down?

 

[ComsDown]

In 1994 I was a UN soldier in South Lebanon, and one of those landed just 40 meters from the gate of our base, where I was doing guard duty. Luckilly there was a small mound of dirt between me and the explosion.

You could hear them flying trough the air, it was when the sound stopped they where dangerous.

Wildly inaccurate as well. Nobody knew where they would be landing, and the Hezballah, that where firing them off, just pointed them in the general direction of Israel, and set them off. Often they set them up with a timer device at night, and the thing would fire sometime during the day.

Quite often the home made firing ramps took off WITH the rocket. And most never actually made it all the way across the border. The ones that nearly hit our camp that day, where probably set up the night before, and where intended for Israel, not us...

Interestingly, when we went to Israel on R&R, the border point would be full off American tourists, there to have a look at the war across the border...insane!

 

[rock45]

Bad situation

Such a bad situation with little end in site unless all third party outsiders leave. I have a guy who lives on my block who's from Lebanon he's been in the US for more twenty years and we talk every now then. He assured me that 90% of all the weapons and support comes from Iran and mainly through Syria. I don't understand why Syria gets a free ride they should be held accountable for half the bad things in Iraq as well.

When you were in Lebanon in 94 did you feel like your hands were tied? Or were you targets for both side?

The Hezballah could care less about the people of Lebanon they fire these rockets or set them up right near people on purpose. Israel fires back air strike or artillery's, from the location or near it and there the bad guys.

No easy answers

 

[Missileer]

Even with this generation of Fire Finders which can locate, send GPS location to a missile or artillery battery in mSeconds, the civilians are always a problem. Bad public opinion in a World that doesn`t grasp the nature of trying to defend a small nation surrounded by mortal enemies.

 

[mmarsh]

Such a bad situation with little end in site unless all third party outsiders leave. I have a guy who lives on my block who's from Lebanon he's been in the US for more twenty years and we talk every now then. He assured me that 90% of all the weapons and support comes from Iran and mainly through Syria. I don't understand why Syria gets a free ride they should be held accountable for half the bad things in Iraq as well.

When you were in Lebanon in 94 did you feel like your hands were tied? Or were you targets for both side?

The Hezballah could care less about the people of Lebanon they fire these rockets or set them up right near people on purpose. Israel fires back air strike or artillery's, from the location or near it and there the bad guys.

No easy answers

------------------------------------------------------------
Rock45

Despite frayed relations, Syria has its uses for the US Government in particularly for GWOT, many of the terrorism suspects that dont go to Gitmo are sent their for interrogation. Thats why they are tolerated.

 

[ComsDown]

When you were in Lebanon in 94 did you feel like your hands were tied? Or were you targets for both side?

The Hezballah could care less about the people of Lebanon they fire these rockets or set them up right near people on purpose. Israel fires back air strike or artillery's, from the location or near it and there the bad guys.

No easy answers

We were more or less helpless. But our mission was first and foremost to observe, and not intervene. Well, we did night patrols and set up some ambush points for Hezballah in the Litani valley, and weapons smugglers from Syria up around what is today known as Chebaa farms. And we manned VCP's, and tailed IDF and their Lebanese allies when they came trough our AO. That was just about all we could do.

But I would say the parties more or less respected the Norwegian Batallion.

But yes, we were fired uppon by both parties. In '96 the year of Operation Grapes of Wrath and the Quanah massacre, when the IDF artillery fired directly into the Fiji Bat HQ, killing roughly 100 women and children who had sought refuge there, plus 3 Fijian soldiers...and our own incident, where a patrol was fired upon by an Israeli Merkava tank, using flechette grenades, wounding 3 of ours.

So being a "neutral" soldier was easy, we hated both sides...

But I have to stress, we where not there to inervene in the conflict itself... our wepons was purely for self defence...and heaviest gun we had was a few shoulder fired 84mm Recoiless cannons (the "Carl Gustav").

Anyway, 21 Norwegian soldiers lost their lives there from 1978 -to we pulled out in 1999 i believe it was...

 

[rock45]

Confused

ComsDown - Thanks for answering

Hi mmarsh

mmarsh
Despite frayed relations, Syria has its uses for the US Government in particularly for GWOT, many of the terrorism suspects that dont go to Gitmo are sent their for interrogation. Thats why they are tolerated.

I'm sorry but what is GWOT?

The US sends terrorism suspects are sent to Syria? We trust them with interrogation, I never heard of such a thing in my life? I so totally confused by this "there friends" with Iran and weapon killing our soldiers past through there country? They could be holding former Iraqi weapons as far as we know? There support terrorism and help kill US Marines in Lebanon years ago. This is very up setting to me is a big way. Can you give a little more detail on this and is this public information? Thanks

 

[mmarsh]

ComsDown - Thanks for answering

Hi mmarsh
I'm sorry but what is GWOT?

The US sends terrorism suspects are sent to Syria? We trust them with interrogation, I never heard of such a thing in my life? I so totally confused by this "there friends" with Iran and weapon killing our soldiers past through there country? They could be holding former Iraqi weapons as far as we know? There support terrorism and help kill US Marines in Lebanon years ago. This is very up setting to me is a big way. Can you give a little more detail on this and is this public information? Thanks

------------------------------------------
GWOT= Global War on Terror

Have you heard of 'rendition'? Its the process of sending suspects to other countries who have less-than-gentle methods of interrogation.

Put it to you this way: Waterboarding is considered foreplay.

And yes, by the sheer madness of the world we live in, Syria is a place where US Terror suspects are dropped off. Syria wasnt always considered a hostile country. Both Bush I and Clinton naunced the Syrians, the Syrian Army fought side-by-side the US in the first Gulf War.

But W, the Neocons, and the Isreali lobby, in one of their moments foreign policy 'enlightenment' changed their Middle East policy from listening to both sides of the Arab-Isreali conflict to that of "Israel Uber Alles". Which of course pissed off the Syrians something fierce as they felt they had been betrayed. So the Syrians helping Hezbollah isnt at all surprisng.

The most notorious case of someonebeing sent to Syria is Mahar Arar. Its was pretty shocking.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maher_Arar

 

[rock45]

Mixed

Hi mmarsh
Not exactly a clear cut example this case I guess the US held him for a reason or at least one would think so. Doesn't sound like we sent him to Syria with a note tied to him please tortured me. If he was part of those groups he wouldn't tortured for that now one he? Most likely left Syria illegally or maybe the Syrians thought he was a spy? Something here doesn't sound right and remeber getting all those countries as you mention to fight on on side was part a show to to gain suuport for the war not because we needed them. Many American and I'm sure US Marines look down at Syrian government.

changed their Middle East policy from listening to both sides of the Arab-Isreali conflict to that of "Israel Uber Alles". Which of course pissed off the Syrians something fierce as they felt they had been betrayed. So the Syrians helping Hezbollah isnt at all surprisng.

I don't believe the above they played both sides and harbor killers and I think were stupid for dealing with them in any manor period. Americans have been killed by this group and other directly because of Syria's support. Syria has messed up Lebanon for years and that region and to me are so much a part the problem. On my list for Global War on Terror I rate them only behind Iran and above Pakistan.

 

[LeEnfield]

99% of these missiles fired into Israel fall into open ground, if you are worried about going to Israel becuase of these missiles then it's about time you built a bunker at home and hunkered down for the rest of your life. Have you ever heard of an American being killed by one of these missiles in Israel.

 

[mmarsh]

Hi mmarsh
Not exactly a clear cut example this case I guess the US held him for a reason or at least one would think so. Doesn't sound like we sent him to Syria with a note tied to him please tortured me. If he was part of those groups he wouldn't tortured for that now one he? Most likely left Syria illegally or maybe the Syrians thought he was a spy? Something here doesn't sound right and remeber getting all those countries as you mention to fight on on side was part a show to to gain suuport for the war not because we needed them. Many American and I'm sure US Marines look down at Syrian government.

I don't believe the above they played both sides and harbor killers and I think were stupid for dealing with them in any manor period. Americans have been killed by this group and other directly because of Syria's support. Syria has messed up Lebanon for years and that region and to me are so much a part the problem. On my list for Global War on Terror I rate them only behind Iran and above Pakistan.

-----------------------

He wasn't coming from Syria, he was coming back from a vacation in Tunisia. He was only in New York to catch a connecting flight to Vancouver. While he was born in Syria, his family immigrated to Canada when he was 17. So there is no way he could have been identified as a intelligence officier. The reason he got picked up was because the Canadians confused him with another Mahar Arar (its a very Arabic common name like John Smith), which later turned out to be an fake alias of the real terrorist they were looking for. A fews days later, the Canadians recontacted the State Department to acknowledge they might have been mistaken about this guy But the State Department was so convinced that they had caught a known al-Qaeda member refused to release him or to double-check to see if they had the right guy. It was the Syrians themselves (after torturing this guy for 9 months) who told the State Department they didn't think he was a terrorist. If you think the government couldnt screw up that badly, then remember this is the same State Department whose first names on the no-fly list were all 17 9-11 hijackers -after the attacks.

 

[rock45]

government

I'm sure it's possible for the government to mess up. mmarch this is one case you kind of made it sound that it's a normal thing for the US to send Syria a terrorists supporting government other suspected terrorist. Can you provide a link to any official US policy stating the US sends suspected terrorist for torturing to Syria? This sounds like they grab a 17 kid with the same name of a known terrorist and made a huge mistake. This doesn't explain why Syria gets a free ride when it comes to GWOT issues right?

LeEnfield
99% of these missiles fired into Israel fall into open ground, if you are worried about going to Israel becuase of these missiles then it's about time you built a bunker at home and hunkered down for the rest of your life. Have you ever heard of an American being killed by one of these missiles in Israel.

I have no reason to go to Israel nor would I want to hunkered down in a bunker for the rest of my life, that's not what I was trying to say. Americans being hit or killed by these rockets no. But by bombers in Israel that Syria let slip threw there country and who they directly support and equipped yes. It would do that region a favor if a wall was built cutting Syria off from Lebanon.

 

[Supostat]

Katyusha's are, according to my grandfather, who spend WWII in Eastern Poland, the most terrifying weapon in creation.

If used as designed - dozens or even hundreds of rockets in a small cut of time hitting aerial target and destroying anything within it, if not covered in proper shelters.

However, various mujahedeens used those rockets in `semi` firing regime, targeting individual rockets on invaders/peacekeepers garrisons or near countries. Such weapons were used also in Afghanistan 1979-1989 and nowadays, in Iraq and Lebanon, mostly in `single-shot` mode... use of them `as designed` (MRLS) still remains advantage of regular army, not insurgents.

 

[84RFK]

Right Supostat, or as a buddy of mine told.

The Hezballah used to sneak into a village close to the border, find a suitable length of drainpipe or whatever, place the rocket inside, point it roughly towards the Israeli border and ignite it by primitive means.

Needless to say the guys could achieve severe burns, and the rocket usually went down in some field on the other side.

But it was more than enough to call for an israeli air strike or artillery bombardment on the spot where it was launched, and that kept the fury against the Israelis warm in that village... :-?

 

[rock45]

Rockets

Now aren't the rockets and parts used to make them come from and through Syria? I'm sure it's more difficult then the way I'm going to describe it but wouldn't a UN peace force be almost more useful going through and searching everything that passes through from Syria?

84RFK- good point it's always going to warm in villages for the Israli's if these outsiders mainly can just operate inside Lebanon. Imagine if a portion of these rockets did hit crowed areas? Israel would have to strike back and it just goes on and on. The kids I saw on the news growing up throwing rocks at the Israeli soldiers now there kids are doing the same thing? Wouldn't you think after a while your following the wrong people or listening to the wrong group? I just know third party people mess things up.

 

[Missileer]

The practice of using "dumb" rockets against an enemy is as old as gunpowder. The Chinese fired them into the Mongol hordes which was an easy target. Our own Hydra-70 has been an extremely effective, and cheap but not very accurate, helicopter armament. At least a helicopter could aim a barrage by LOS and minimize collateral damage.