The Other Guy
Spam King
More: http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSISL423500
Actually it seems like a pretty interesting idea. Divide the Taliban against itself and bring out Islamist elements against al-Qaeda.
Thoughts?
Karzai supports Obama's plan to reach out to Taliban moderates
Actually it seems like a pretty interesting idea. Divide the Taliban against itself and bring out Islamist elements against al-Qaeda.
Thoughts?
Partisan
Active member
Long overdue. Keep your friends close & your enemies closer!!
If we really want to achieve some form of success in Afghanistan, or other countries for that matter, we need friends. To make friends we need to give a little to get a little. What we need to decide, & ultimately the Afghans, what do want to give up to make new friends, if anything?
If we really want to achieve some form of success in Afghanistan, or other countries for that matter, we need friends. To make friends we need to give a little to get a little. What we need to decide, & ultimately the Afghans, what do want to give up to make new friends, if anything?
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Rob Henderson
Banned
It makes sense to me... But I'd be EXTREMELY cautious... It would not be good if our President got blown up... He's a world choice, and the world would be devastated... (The whole point of terrorism)
MontyB
All-Blacks Supporter
World choice?
Devastated?
Got to be honest here I really don't care who you elected in the last election all I and probably a sizable chunk of the world cared about is that the guy holding the position at the time went away.
As far as being devastated goes... me personally not likely and I suspect that 99% of the rest of the world will get up and go to work the following morning without giving it a whole lot of thought however I suspect there would be a ton of jokes that would follow the event.
Devastated?
Got to be honest here I really don't care who you elected in the last election all I and probably a sizable chunk of the world cared about is that the guy holding the position at the time went away.
As far as being devastated goes... me personally not likely and I suspect that 99% of the rest of the world will get up and go to work the following morning without giving it a whole lot of thought however I suspect there would be a ton of jokes that would follow the event.
mmarsh
Active member
That maybe your opinion MontyB, but I can tell you for a fact that the day that Kennedy was assasinated my mother said that was like the black death had revisited Europe. For example, The metro in Paris was ghostly quiet. I saw the same effect with my own eyes on 9/11 2001.
Obama (like him or hate him) is VERY popular around the world, he's more popular than Bill Clinton and given his popularity in Africa...even more popular than Kennedy was worldwide.
If something were to befall him there would be a severe shock. So I think Henderson is correct.
BritinBritain
Per Ardua Ad Astra
Not from where I'm sitting.
Most of the black South Africans I know cant spell Obama, let alone know who he is, while the white and coloured South Africans don't give a toss. The only real supporters of Obama in South Africa is the ANC Government, for reason of race and hope he's going to pour billions of dollars into the countr. As always the usual begging bowls are coming out. If I white guy had been elected I doubt if any comment would have been made by the ANC.
9/11 was a totally different scenario, that was mass murder and shocked most civilisations around the world.
If Obama was bumped off tomorrow, most South Africans wouldn't care less one way or the other, neither would I suspect, the citizens of a lot of other countries.
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AB_Shorts_Momma
Milforum Otaku
No matter how you spin this, in the end you'll need the locals to uphold "your" peace. If you cut them out, they'll end up fighting over control anyway. So if you talk to some of the militants, I reckon it will be easier to pull this thing afloat.
Don't forget that these people have fighting as their number one sport. If there is no foreign enemy they pick up their guns and start a fight amongst themselves. What I mean to say is: they have all the time of the world and you'll need some/ most of them to start some kind of peace.
Don't forget that these people have fighting as their number one sport. If there is no foreign enemy they pick up their guns and start a fight amongst themselves. What I mean to say is: they have all the time of the world and you'll need some/ most of them to start some kind of peace.
Rob Henderson
Banned
You think so do you? Well how about this... I'll try to find the sources for HIS claims, but I have a feeling he's NOT lying...MontyB said:
I am not sure if I agree with you on this mate. He had whopping majorities because the alternative was so very much worse. In Holland he also had a vast majority when people were asked: whom do you perfer; Bush or Obama. But if a world leader had to be chosen it wouldn't automatically be Obama. But I must admit that he is a charming fellow with plenty charisma.
Chukpike
Banned
Henderson strikes again! Steals Topic and others Fall in Line.
Why couldn't we just discuss the pros and cons of developing communications between the Taliban, Afghanistan and the Allied forces? Instead of somehow getting to President Obama being blown up.
Didn't you feel the hook being set when you responded to Henderson?
So this topic is about Obama winning a popularity contest? Give him a chance to accomplish something first.
Let's see, Taliban good when they got the Russians out. Taliban bad when they formed a repressive fundamentalist state. Taliban bad when they harbored Al Qaeda. (All true from a western stand point).
I believe for the most part the Taliban are Afghans who intend to stay in Afghanistan, and unless we are trying to kill them all, there will be some dealing with them. As they were and still are a political force in Afghanistan. (Whether we like them are not).
Rob Henderson
Banned
Don't you think President Obama being blown up would be a con of those communications? I wasn't stealing the topic at all.. One of the main goals of terrorists (Al Qaeda) is to cause death, destruction, and disruption of the world... Destroying the leader of the free world, who the world has put their faith into, would be a GREAT way to accomplish all three of those tasks.
Oh get off my back... The only way we get off topic is when you AUTOMATICALLY start accusing me personally instead of TRYING to figure out my connection that makes the post relevant to the topic.Chukpike said:
The fact still remains that Obama wasn't only the US's choice... He was the WORLD'S choice. (Albeit, Ted, the choice at the time.)Chukpike said:
I agree. And opening communications (instead of a complete eradication of the Middle East) is a smart move... Which brings me back to my first statement of "I would be cautious though."Chukpike said:
See how that all fits in Chukpike?
The Other Guy
Spam King
Just curious, but if we consider a post off-topic, couldn't we just report it? Instead of complaining about it...
True. So, dividing them against themselves seems like a good idea. How do you think it will work in practce?
MontyB
All-Blacks Supporter
I think you are confusing world relief that Bush is out of office with some sort of support for Obama when the reality is that it wouldn't have mattered who the Democrats had put up in this election he would have got world support, hell just look at the previous election and see who the "world" wanted and I am betting it wasn't George Bush.
I will be honest here and say that I wouldn't lose any sleep over my own leaders dying in office and I am less likely to care about yours.
I agree completely any solution in Afghanistan is going to involve dealing with the Taliban and I am a little bemused it has taken 8 years for this to be realised.
Rob Henderson
Banned
And you are one person entitled to your opinion. I'm not entirely educated on the subject of the entire world's opinion, but I'd go far enough to say that there would be some sadness if Obama were to be killed during talks with the Taliban, or any other means of death. Tell me this Monty, did you support Hillary Clinton when she was in the running for the Democratic nomination? I didn't think so..... It's not JUST Obama being NOT George Bush... Part of it IS the fact that Obama was deemed a better candidate than John McCain.
Too many movies... "We do NOT negotiate with terrorists."MontyB said:
LOL
mmarsh
Active member
Chukpike
I don't disagree, however the point remains that Obama is hugely popular both inside and outside the U.S, that's simply a fact.
MontyB
That's true to a degree, but Obama has alot of qualities as well. He's charismatic, he's smart, hes a powerful speaker, and he's half-black, which I can tell you people are very sympathetic to in Europe (and elsewhere). The day he was elected the blacks in France were chanting on the Metro "OBAMA, on a gagne!". (We won!). European countries that have a lot of immigrants were extremely pleased that he won as Europe struggles with its own race relations problems. Obama is seen as a champion for minorities.
Personally I agree with the sentiment that it was time to engage our enemies in dialogue. Only a fool would equate talking to our enemies as surrendering to them. The fact remains the US always keeps a channel to her enemies, even when a state of war is declared.
I don't disagree, however the point remains that Obama is hugely popular both inside and outside the U.S, that's simply a fact.
MontyB
That's true to a degree, but Obama has alot of qualities as well. He's charismatic, he's smart, hes a powerful speaker, and he's half-black, which I can tell you people are very sympathetic to in Europe (and elsewhere). The day he was elected the blacks in France were chanting on the Metro "OBAMA, on a gagne!". (We won!). European countries that have a lot of immigrants were extremely pleased that he won as Europe struggles with its own race relations problems. Obama is seen as a champion for minorities.
Personally I agree with the sentiment that it was time to engage our enemies in dialogue. Only a fool would equate talking to our enemies as surrendering to them. The fact remains the US always keeps a channel to her enemies, even when a state of war is declared.
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Chukpike
Banned
Since you put it that way... No.
Did we?
Not sure it is a question of dividing the Taliban. Since most moderate Afghans and possibly moderate Taliban's excepted the coalition when the allied forces drove the hardliners out.
A "moderate Taliban" might resemble a Hyena with a hardliner being closer to a Hyena with rabies.
Is there really a Taliban "moderate"? Has anyone actually seen one?
03USMC
Active member
The topic was ........... Are dialouges with the Taliban a viable option.
The topic is not:
1. How popular is the POTUS with the rest of the world.
2. Will dialouges with the Taliban end up with POTUS being and I qoute
"Blown Up"
3. If 2 happens how will it effect the the world.
So get back on topic.
If you want to discuss 1-3 start a new thread.
The topic is not:
1. How popular is the POTUS with the rest of the world.
2. Will dialouges with the Taliban end up with POTUS being and I qoute
"Blown Up"
3. If 2 happens how will it effect the the world.
So get back on topic.
If you want to discuss 1-3 start a new thread.
The Other Guy
Spam King
I didn't, if that's what you mean.
You don't see many pro-choice Republicans in the news, but it doesn't mean they don't exist. Perhaps there are.
mmarsh
Active member
A "moderate Taliban" might resemble a Hyena with a hardliner being closer to a Hyena with rabies. Is there really a Taliban "moderate"? Has anyone actually seen one?
All Organizations have elements that are more or less extreme than the average, even terrorist organizations. For example the REAL IRA just made the point this weekend that despite the peace accords, its still not playing ball like the rest of the IRA.
In Afghanistan, it was the moderate talibans that urged Mullah Omar to kick al-Qaeda out of Afghanistan after 9-11 for fear the US would intervene militarily.
All Organizations have elements that are more or less extreme than the average, even terrorist organizations. For example the REAL IRA just made the point this weekend that despite the peace accords, its still not playing ball like the rest of the IRA.
In Afghanistan, it was the moderate talibans that urged Mullah Omar to kick al-Qaeda out of Afghanistan after 9-11 for fear the US would intervene militarily.