is it just me? - Page 2




View Poll Results :Power?
maybe 2 15.38%
no 3 23.08%
yes 8 61.54%
Voters: 13. You may not vote on this poll

 
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May 15th, 2004  
Nero
 
It seems to me that it's mostly just tryin to keep us safe, but I fear that it will grow, and soon we will have very few freedoms left. The only problem I have right now is the Patriot Act, as it completely disregards the 4th and 5th Amendments. However, I only speak for myself, I represent no one else's opinions, this is just my point of view.
May 15th, 2004  
Darkmb101
 
Patriot Act? Could you explain that to me? Ive never heard of it before.
May 15th, 2004  
Nero
 
Here's the Patriot Act, it's an American set of laws passed in October of 2001. Basicall, it gives the government the right to search and seizure without probable cause (meaning, without a warrant, and they don't even have to tell you that they've done it afterwards), and they can arrest someone , and hold them indefinitely, without due process.



Edit: Fixed the BBCode... sorry.
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May 15th, 2004  
Darkmb101
 
Wait did Congress not the House of Reps pass the act? I couldnt find that on the site.
May 15th, 2004  
Marksman
 
 
Total power.......only trouble
May 16th, 2004  
Nero
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkmb101
Wait did Congress not the House of Reps pass the act? I couldnt find that on the site.

I believe that the H.R. bills (H. R. 3162) means that it was started in the House of Reps, but it also passed through the Senate (IN THE SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES). So it went completely through Congress.
May 16th, 2004  
RnderSafe
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkmb101
Wait did Congress not the House of Reps pass the act? I couldnt find that on the site.
The House of Reps is part of Congress.

Quote:
"All Legislative Powers herein granted shall be vested in a Congress of the United States, which shall consist of a Senate and House of Representatives."
(Article I, Section 1, of the United States Constitution)

H.R.2975 was the original PATRIOT Act, and S1510 was the original USA Act.

They got together, hammered out the details and the final bill, H.R.3162, the "USA PATRIOT Act," was born.

It passed in the Senate 98-1 and in the H.R. 356-66
May 16th, 2004  
eaglestrikes
 
Quote:
the Patriot Act, it's an American set of laws passed in October of 2001. Basicall, it gives the government the right to search and seizure without probable cause (meaning, without a warrant, and they don't even have to tell you that they've done it afterwards), and they can arrest someone , and hold them indefinitely, without due process.
Naw. It does no such thing. Search and Seizure is not a Government right
it is a legal ability. In order to accomplish it the DOJ or it's minions MUST present to a Judge a request for authority to search. This affidavit must contain all the reasons for the request and must be in line with all current jurisprudence and Supreme Court decisions. Upon "finding" that sufficient probable cause exist to issue, and execute, a search warrant the judge shall do so, or if he feels it is not adequate and is mere suspicion, or less, he can deny. The Patriot act was a legal maneuver to tear down the walls that prevented DOJ or other LEA from going straight to a judge and including information that was previously denied to the authorities because of legal "STOPS" (such as CIA information) in the affidavit.
The same thing is done day after day in every part of the country all the Act did was remove some of the barriers. Seizure, if it occurs must comply with the Mapp Vs Ohio requirements. If something is found there is no, and never has been, any legal obligation to tell someone, you can allow them to continue, and monitor, for as long as you want. Only those who have no "Status" I. E. they are not citizens, or they are picked up as terrorist, can be held as you indicate, without due process. All this is much ado about nothing. It was twisted out of perspective by those who oppose ANYTHING the government does especially if President Bush's name is attached. Government should be restricted and downsized. That is proper. It is ridiculous to exemplify something that has already existed as being more than what it is in order to achieve a purpose. (Making sure President Bush is not re-elected) Some of these Laws date back 100 years or more. Good Grief.
May 17th, 2004  
Achilles
 
 
To nero from earlier, the british were doing the same thing in america, india, and their other colonies, they all led to rebbelion, thats wre america is headed unless we out-right tell the government that we dont want their "protection"
May 17th, 2004  
Marksman
 
 
Well as i see it,some country that poseses a colony and is afraid of rebelion is certanly gonna use the full POWER to stop any cind of rebellion