Joint Combat Pistol

January 22nd, 2006  

Topic: Joint Combat Pistol

Well, since the US Army is looking to replace the M9 service pistol with somehting chambered in .45 ACP. I was wondering what pistols do you think might be submitted in this open bid competition. I don't want this to develop into one of the never ending arguments. Hopefully this will be a civilized discussion.

Here are the specs that the DOD stated...
  • The notice starts: The USSOCOM intends to issue a solicitation to obtain commercially available nin-developmental item(NDI) Joint Combat Pistol (JCP) system, Caliber .45 (ACP).
  • Two configurations required: One with no external safety and the other configuration will have an external safety.
  • The 'Combat Pistol System' is to consist of:
    • a Caliber .45 pistol
    • Magazines (standard and high-capacity);
    • Suppressor Attachment Kit
    • Holster
    • Magazine Holder (standard and high-capacity)
    • Cleaning Kit and Operator's Manual.
  • Estimates for max procurment quantities for the system are listed as
    • 45,000 no external safety
    • 600,000 JCP with the external safety configuration
    • 649,000 Holsters
    • 96,050 Standard Capacity Magazines
    • 192,099 High Capacity Magazines
    • 667,000 Magazine Holders
    • 132,037 Suppressor attachment kits

With the requirements I think that maybe the GLOCK Model 21 or the H&K USP Tactical could when the requirements. More than likely, the one of H&K's pistols will win the contract due to the fact that they make the same pistol with a external safety system and one without an external safety system.

I would like the GLOCK Model 21 to win the contract but more than likely it won't happan. Beretta can also stay in the game with their PX4 Storm Pistol. It's a modern design of their 8000 Cougar series. The grips can be for different size hands, it has a modern light rail, and it is also made both with and with out external safety system. Lastly, it can also take a suppressor. The only deal is it's rotating barrel system. I find it a little complicated for a simple field strip.

The Springfield Armory XD Series is more than likely out of the question, because of the same reasons as GLOCK. They're double action only pistols. And so is the 1911-A1 Series pistol. Sorry folks. Single Action Pistols like the 1911-A1 are outdated. I own one but it's over complicated for a simple field strip.

If any of you guys overseas have any ideas of what might win, please post. But lets not have this go into another crazy never ending argument.

PS - What does England issue as a standard issue combat pistol. I forgot, I know it's something, I think the High Power. But I forgot.
January 22nd, 2006  
major liability
It's probably ruled out for the same reason you mentioned for the M1911A1, but I know Para Ordnance from Canada makes single-action and double-action hi-cap M1911s with 14-round mags.

The USP45 Tactical is one of my favorite pistols, and it will probably win because it already meets all of the requirements (aside from the hi-cap mag requirement, but that's easy to do). What are your reasons for wanting the GLOCK-21 to win?
January 22nd, 2006  
Well, I'm just a fan of GLOCK. But I also know that some MP in Irag are being issued GLOCK 17s. It's a small group of troops. Also, the GLOCK 17 is in service with some NATO Members as their service pistol and it is also the NATO pistol.

I truly think that H&K will win the contract, unless Beretta does something amazing with their PX4 Storm series pistol. It's a good pistol, they're flying like hot cakes out of my local gun store. Hell, they're even on back order. But I don't see it winning. Soon America will look just like the Bundeswehr. (Ain't nothing wrong with that either.)

Para Ordnance is one fine pistol. I like their Double-Action 1911s in .40S&W. They've really updated and modernized the 1911 series. I know a couple of LEOs that carry one as a duty pistol.
January 22nd, 2006  
Soon America will look just like the Bundeswehr. (Ain't nothing wrong with that either.)
I agree with you. I think that nobody should care about where a gun or a piece of equipment is developed or produced or which other Land, Army or Unit use the same piece. I think that the essential is that our troops are issued with the best stuff on the market because their lifes depend on this piece of metal, polymer or cloth regardless if it comes from Brazil, Israel, Holland, US, Germany or Sweden.
Yes, the Bundeswehr ( German Army) uses the HK P8 9X19, which is also a USP, in two versions.
One with safty in service with german Army , Air Force and Navy .
The other one is called P8 Combat, with just a frame-mounted lever that does not have the "safe" position it only allows the hammer to be lowered from SA position to DA position, not to safe the gun. This one is only issued to the Boarding Teams of the german Navy.
So i hope your DOD will take the best one and not the lowest bidder(but i think the troops have to reckon with it because it´s all about the money), thats the same in every country .

Greetz Joker
January 23rd, 2006  
So nobody likes Sig's?
January 23rd, 2006  
Sig Sauer pistols don't have any safeties like what the Beretta 92 and H&K have. They just have de-cockers.
January 23rd, 2006  
...and yet they were adopted by the US Navy SEAL's.

Though I do really like the H&K. Feels nice, shoots nice.

As for the Berreta, well... I'll leave that one alone, no reason to cause bad feelings.
January 23rd, 2006  

HK .45 USP. The perfect sidearm, in my opinion.
January 23rd, 2006  
Yup, the H&K .45 is going to win in my opinion.
January 23rd, 2006  
major liability
I wonder why they went with the old .45 ACP instead of 5.7x28mm or HK's 4.6? I know they won't adopt anything Russian, but in my opinion the best pistol round for military service is the 9x21mm SP-10 "Gyurza." Combines the stopping power of the Parabellum with the armor penetration of the 5-7.

It makes a bit of sense since most of America's enemies seem not to have body armor, and .45 will drop 'em quick without armor (and even with it they'll be knocked down).