Japanese government considers pre-emptive strike on North Korean ICBM facilities.

More than anything, I think that the Japanese statements amount to political pressure. Here we have Japan (and not the United States) coming out with the strongest statement against North Korea. Japan has relatively good relations with Russia. Russia's insistence on making any and all UN resolutions utterly pointless ... well, that's a position they may have to rethink.

Both Koreas are very much against the idea of Japan nullifying/amending the portion of their Constitution that disallows them an offensive military force. China is especially against such a move. But Kim Jong Il's actions are creating enough fear in Japan, that in all likelihood, the Japanese people and their government will believe that they have no choice.

Now, as for the feasability of a purely Japanese pre-emptive stike? No, I don't think that Japan truly capable of pulling it off. But let's bear in mind that the Japanese government fully realizes this, and their inability is going to scare them. It's going to lead them to insist upon building that very capacity into their military within the very near future.

What we are seeing, is the Japanese playing politics more than anything.
 
the_13th_redneck said:
But let us also remind ourselves that North Korea has perhaps one of the densest anti-aircraft defense networks... maybe in the world.
Yeah but isn't it also among the most outdated in the world?

the_13th_redneck said:
Remember that South Korea and Japan's coast guards either faced off or nearly faced off because of an island dispute (Korean name: Dok-do, Japanese name: Takeshima). A few months ago there was rumor going on that South Korea and Japan could actually go to war.
Wow, that is scary!
the_13th_redneck said:
The idea of Japanese F-2s (that's what they call their F-16s) landing in a South Korean Air Force base after an airstrike deep inside North Korea is about as realistic as The Lord of The Rings.
I thought so.

the_13th_redneck said:
In the event that Japan does attack North Korea, you could have a strange situation where South Korea actually HELPS defend North Korea. The Korea-Japan hatred is a lot deeper than most of you will ever understand.
I knew there was some resentment and outrage in Korea about the Japanese PM honoring the fallen war heroes/criminals of WW2 but until now I thought it was mostly superficial!

the_13th_redneck said:
Because of the current and the previous administration, the current South Korean sentiment towards North Korea is an unhealthy one where there is too much understanding and caring for the North Koreans. It's like these people don't understand that ultimately the missiles are for us.
Surely the missiles are meant as a deterrent and if nobody threatens to conquer North Korea they will remain in their silos/on their TELs/launch ramps.

the_13th_redneck said:
If there is a war in Korea any time before June of next year, I'll be fighting in it. But if we're going to have one, we might as well have one while I'm here.
In that case, I would wish you good luck and hope you'll survive it.
sandy said:
Who minds NK extinction.
abduct an ordinary citizen
So you mind that North Korean citizens are abducted but don't mind the destruction of those citizens?:roll:
sandy said:
making threat against world peace
There is no such thing as world peace. Also, there's a number of other powers out there who are doing everything to keep warring in their region, unlike North Korea, which is testing missiles.
 
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So you mind that North Korean citizens are abducted but don't mind the destruction of those citizens?:roll:
I mean that Citizen of foreign country
For examples,SK Japan France Thailand Malaysia China etc etc.
Of course,Kim is killing people of NK.
There is no such thing as world peace. Also, there's a number of other powers out there who are doing everything to keep warring in their region, unlike North Korea, which is testing missiles.
As FOX news reported,
NK help Iran,s developing of ballistic missile tecnology and dispatches one's nuclear engineers to Iran.
This TEST will make taepodong more expensive for wild urchin.
This is the action against world peace,Right?
What will happen if Iran get ballistic missile with nuclear warhead?
 
The difference between attack and defense is in the eye of the beholder.

Damn right. We are called the Australian Defence Force..... but we've been fighting other peoples wars since forever. Defence force just sounds better than Attack force..... but in truth thats what the Australian military does, so there is no reason the Japanese Defence Force would be any different.
 
sandy said:
I mean that Citizen of foreign country
For examples,SK Japan France Thailand Malaysia China etc etc.
Of course,Kim is killing people of NK.
Really? I didn't know that.

sandy said:
As FOX news reported,
NK help Iran,s developing of ballistic missile tecnology and dispatches one's nuclear engineers to Iran.
This TEST will make taepodong more expensive for wild urchin.
This is the action against world peace,Right?
What will happen if Iran get ballistic missile with nuclear warhead?
This is true.But most world powers sell weapons technologies to dictators.
AussieNick said:
Damn right. We are called the Australian Defence Force..... but we've been fighting other peoples wars since forever. Defence force just sounds better than Attack force..... but in truth thats what the Australian military does, so there is no reason the Japanese Defence Force would be any different.
You want the Japanese military to be a SELF Attack Force?? :D
 
Last thing we need is a military powered up japan. That's just going to make china spend more on defense and that will ripple throughout the world. The best thing to do is go for diplomacy, kim just wants $$$. Like the deal Iran is being offered to stop enrichment, that's what NK wants.

Think about it, if NK did attack they could be ruined and china and south korea wouldn't have much to say in NK's defense in that scenario. Pre emptive strikes as proved by the Bush doctrine are no good, it's a little nation in reality, just talk to them.

I know international leaders aren't going to look this thread up but i think this makes sense. The best thing in the region is calm and good relationships.
 
WarMachine said:
Last thing we need is a military powered up japan. That's just going to make china spend more on defense and that will ripple throughout the world.

Isn't China needlessly beefing up their military right now anyways? Better to have strong American and Japanese militaries ready to move when China tries something stupid to destabilize the region (eg. Taiwan).

WarMachine said:
The best thing to do is go for diplomacy, kim just wants $$$. Like the deal Iran is being offered to stop enrichment, that's what NK wants.

Didn't we try that with the Clinton admin? Who's to say Kim won't rattle the sabers again when his credit card is declined X years from today?
 
Isn't China needlessly beefing up their military right now anyways?
warMachine means chinese will get a perfect excuse to spend much more than what they spend right now.

the matter of prime importance needed be dealt with is to make sure N Korean will never become a country which possess some nuclear weapons.
the idea of pre-emptive strike on North Korea will push Kim Jong Il to accelerate the speed of building nuclear weapon.

it is very difficult that American government has to deal with Iran, NKorea and Irag at same time.
 
The NK wants a goods deal like iran is being offered because they're desperate at this point. In the clinton administration NK was being isolationist and their problems didn't get out of control like now. Rather than appear weak, Kim is trying to strong arm aid to his country since he would apparently get more goods that way than if he just asked for international assistance.

China would want stability in the region as well since they're the only ones that can really do anything diplomatically with NK and Beijing is being more and more pressured to help solve the problem. Japan's LDP government isn't helping the situation, it's like no one wants to do it unilaterally, but everyone has a different idea of what sort of multilateral solution is necessary.
 
WarMachine said:
The NK wants a goods deal like iran is being offered because they're desperate at this point. In the clinton administration NK was being isolationist and their problems didn't get out of control like now. Rather than appear weak, Kim is trying to strong arm aid to his country since he would apparently get more goods that way than if he just asked for international assistance.

i.e. blackmail...

WarMachine said:
China would want stability in the region as well since they're the only ones that can really do anything diplomatically with NK and Beijing is being more and more pressured to help solve the problem. Japan's LDP government isn't helping the situation, it's like no one wants to do it unilaterally, but everyone has a different idea of what sort of multilateral solution is necessary.

It's evident in the last couple of years the six-party nuclear talks that China does not want a stable NK. If China really wanted this problem to be resolved, it would have happened years ago. Why? Because China is NK's only allie and primary source of sustainance. Whatever China says, NK will fly with it. If China really wanted this problem to be resolved, they would have allowed the use of military force if NK failed to comply with the UN resolution passed by pretty much the entire UNSC (minus China and Russia of course: no surprise there). China does not want a stable NK because an unstable NK means reunification with SK and that would pretty much mean Korea will be allied with the US, which would mean China would be surrounded by nations friendly to the US. A volatile and unpredictable NK means China has them in their pocket. Bottom line, China is pretty much dragging its foot on this issue. Ask me again why so many posters on this forum is not too fond of the CCP...
 
I find a interesting article which maybe can give us some general ideas about the relationship between these two countries.
JULY 13, 2006
Asia


By Moon Ihlwan and Dexter Roberts

Lifeline From China


A visit to bustling Dandong shows why economic sanctions against North Korea may not work

After North Korea's July 4 fireworks -- seven missile tests launched toward Japan -- it would be easy to assume that the hermit kingdom is more isolated than ever. Don't tell that to the residents of Dandong, a bustling border town in northeastern China. Advertisement

The city of 800,000, a gritty combination of chaos and glitz, is booming in large part because of thriving trade with North Korea. Streets are lined with small guesthouses catering to North Koreans, while restaurants serve up Korean specialties such as cold noodle soup and spicy kimchi. And just hours after the missiles flew, hundreds of trucks resumed their daily parade across the Friendship Bridge, the main passage over the Yalu River dividing the two countries.

In front of the fortress-like truck inspection station on 10 Wei Rd., florists do a brisk business selling elaborate bouquets to North Koreans seeking to honor Great Leader Kim Il Sung, who died in 1994. But there's more going on than selfless acts of northern nationalism. Across the street, dozens of small shops offer goods ranging from used Sony (SNE) and Panasonic (MC) televisions to gas generators, cooking oil, and toilet paper that truckers and other visitors haul across the river. "The North Koreans who come to China are very rich.... All they use are U.S. dollars," says one shopkeeper. "They buy all of this from us, then go back and sell it for a profit in their own country."

The cross-border traffic is just the most visible piece of the strengthening trade ties between North Korea and its giant neighbor. From 2000 to 2005, North Korean imports from the mainland (including oil, pork, electronic gadgets, and farming machinery) more than doubled, to $1.1 billion, while its exports to China (fish, low-grade steel, and minerals) soared more than tenfold, from $37 million to $499 million, according to the Chinese customs office. And by some estimates, informal trade and smuggling could double those figures. Throw in the $715 million in goods shipped from South Korea, about half of which was humanitarian aid such as rice and fertilizer, and North Korea is actually looking less isolated than it has been since its communist trading partners disappeared with the collapse of the Soviet Union.

The growing trade has been a lifeline for the North. Gross domestic product has expanded by about 2% annually since 2000 -- but without trade and aid from China and the South, the country's economy would have contracted, reckons economist Lee Young Hoon, who monitors North Korea at the Bank of Korea, the South's central bank. "Trade with China won't make North Korea prosper, but it allows Pyongyang to muddle through," Lee says.

Add it all up, and there's little reason to expect U.S.-led economic sanctions against North Korea to work. In an effort to force Pyongyang to abandon its nukes, Washington has tried to block the flow of capital, technology, and goods to the North. But Beijing and Seoul have opposed such measures. "Sure, there will be lots of harsh rhetoric and talk of punitive action," says Paik Hak Soon, a North Korea expert at Sejong Institute, an independent think tank in Seoul. "But there's no effective countermeasure unless China and South Korea make a strategic decision to let North Korea collapse."

That's not going to happen anytime soon. Neither neighbor wants to see millions of refugees stampeding across the border. Beijing has enough trouble keeping its own economy on track and doesn't like the possibility of U.S. troops -- currently stationed in the South -- sitting right up against its frontier in the event the two countries were to reunite. In any case, Seoul wants the North to narrow the huge economic gap between the two before that happens.

China also has more prosaic reasons for encouraging trade. The northeast has been largely left out of China's economic transformation of the past two decades. Lately, though, the region has benefited from a policy letting specially licensed traders in border areas import goods at about half the average duty of 12%, the Bank of Korea says. The reduced tariffs and relative ease of moving goods across the border have prompted North Korean merchants and state-run trading companies to use Dandong and nearby cities as a gateway for their business deals with the rest of the world.

That has transformed once-sleepy Dandong. New apartment blocks and office towers are rising along the riverfront. A block away from the water, Binjiang Road glows with bright red, yellow, and gold neon signs announcing seedy saunas and crowded pool halls frequented by Chinese, Russian, and North Korean dealmakers.

Across the river, the North Korean city of Sinuiju practically vanishes at night. The waterfront is little more than dilapidated quays, shabby warehouses, a long-idle Ferris wheel, and rusting boats pulled up on the shore. To conserve electricity, typically available for only a few hours a day in much of North Korea, buildings in the city of 350,000 are barely lit at all. The only visible glow comes from an enormous statue of the Dear Leader, the name used for dictator Kim Jong Il. "You can't get lost," says one Dandong native who has been trading over the border since 2000. "Just look for the only light, and that's where you'll find a statue of the leader."

WARNING SHOTS
Despite the gloom, trade has injected new life into the North. Recent visitors say once-barren shops are brimming with Chinese-made TVs, refrigerators, bicycles, and other goods. And wholesale markets for raw materials and machinery have been set up in Pyongyang and elsewhere, visitors say. But as economic activity picks up, the shortage of supplies is felt even more acutely. "Every factory wants more raw materials, and the cash-strapped country simply can't meet demand," says Jo Dong Ho, a North Korea expert at the state-funded Korea Development Institute in Seoul, who visited the North in May.

In fact, the missile tests may have been a ploy aimed at breaking a diplomatic impasse that's heightening the financial stress on Kim's regime. North Korea wants China's help in releasing $24 million frozen at Banco Delta Asia, in the Chinese enclave of Macau, following charges last year by the U.S. Treasury Dept. that North Korea used the bank to launder proceeds from counterfeiting U.S. currency and other illegal activities. "The missile tests illustrate that North Korea is unhappy with China," says Yan Xuetong, director of the Institute of International Studies at Tsinghua University in Beijing.

China, in turn, was clearly miffed by the test and dispatched a top envoy to Pyongyang to express its concern. But unhappy enough to stop the flow of trucks across the Friendship Bridge? Unlikely.
 
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Japan may have the big bucks but they don't have the capacity to wage a war, or even hit NK with enough air power to do any damage. What they are trying to do is to get America to do the job for them.
 
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