Originally Posted by viper2007

Hi George, my definition of defeated is when the fella throws in his towel and agree to some sort of condition.

That never really happened between ROC and PRC. Just like the two Koreas, there was never really an actual peace settlement...

I may stand to be corrected, however...

Being forced out of a huge country & onto a small island is defeat, it would have been total had the ChiComs had the naval capability to finish them off.

Originally Posted by George

Being forced out of a huge country & onto a small island is defeat, it would have been total had the ChiComs had the naval capability to finish them off.

Point noted, good buddy...

Originally Posted by George

Germany has & continues to recieve flak for the Holocaust, at least the Jewish part of it, less so all the other groups persecuted. Japan was as barbaric in China as the Nazis, mass atrocities, bio warfare, medical expieriments, yet we see no movies covering any of it vs the Germans. Reportedly Japanese records that might have shone light on things was returned to Japan w/o them even being translated. Leaders of the medical experiments founded what became a leading medical company there, ect, ect.

As one former member of the British 14th Army and former Jap POW said during a TV interview, "Not only were we the forgotten Army, we are the forgotten POW's."

Originally Posted by BritinAfrica

As one former member of the British 14th Army and former Jap POW said during a TV interview, "Not only were we the forgotten Army, we are the forgotten POW's."

I wouldn't say forgotten but unknown. Here in Europe almost everyone (at that time) was a witness of the Nazi brutality. For the Europeans the Pacific war was far away and only some British, French and Dutch troops were involved.

The same was true for the sailors of the Atlantic convoys. They too had to wait a long time before their actions got the attention they deserved. Unknown, unloved.

Rubbish, there's been plenty of evidence shown around the world especially in Britain of Jap excess's, torture, murder, rape you name it is shown on TV on a regular basis.

There was uproar when Elizabeth II invited Hirohito to Britain in October 1971, many Burma vets returned their "Burma Star" to Buckinham Palace.

No, you are wrong, ex Jap POW's are forgotten, not unknown. Japan has never apologised officially for their actions and still refuse to pay compensation.

Originally Posted by BritinAfrica

Rubbish, there's been plenty of evidence shown around the world especially in Britain of Jap excess's, torture, murder, rape you name it is shown on TV on a regular basis.

There was uproar when Elizabeth II invited Hirohito to Britain in October 1971, many Burma vets returned their "Burma Star" to Buckinham Palace.

No, you are wrong, ex Jap POW's are forgotten, not unknown. Japan has never apologised officially for their actions and still refuse to pay compensation.

Plenty yes, but not as much as the war in Europe, and not everyone knows as much about WWII as you.

January 16, 1998 : Prime Minister Hashimoto apologized to British prisoners of war for actions taken during World War II

March 3, 2011 : Foreign Minister Seiji Maehara apologized to a group of Australian POWs visiting Japan as guests of the Government of Japan for the ill-treatment they received while in Imperial Japanese captivity

December 8, 2011 : Parliamentary Vice Minister for Foreign Affairs Toshiyuki Kat apologized to Canada for their treatment of Canadian POW's after the Battle of Hong Kong.

I know, it was too late, but better late than never.

And what about the Gurkhas and West African soldiers who fought with the British, aren't they "forgotten" too? (maybe the Africans unknow)

Originally Posted by VDKMS

Plenty yes, but not as much as the war in Europe, and not everyone knows as much about WWII as you.

I'm not an expert by any means

Originally Posted by VDKMS

January 16, 1998 : Prime Minister Hashimoto apologized to British prisoners of war for actions taken during World War II

March 3, 2011 : Foreign Minister Seiji Maehara apologized to a group of Australian POWs visiting Japan as guests of the Government of Japan for the ill-treatment they received while in Imperial Japanese captivity

December 8, 2011 : Parliamentary Vice Minister for Foreign Affairs Toshiyuki Kat apologized to Canada for their treatment of Canadian POW's after the Battle of Hong Kong.


I know, it was too late, but better late than never.

So what? All these apologies were personal apologies, they were not made on behalf of Japan, the Japs still lie regarding their role in WW2 in their schools of the treatment of POW's and the bastards still refuse to pay compensation for their actions to their victims. During a visit to Japan Leonard Cheshire VC who was a witness to the dropping of the A bomb was asked by a Japanese journalist "What does it feel like to be a war criminal?" If I had been Cheshire the Jap would have been picking his teeth up off of the floor.

Originally Posted by VDKMS

And what about the Gurkhas and West African soldiers who fought with the British, aren't they "forgotten" too? (maybe the Africans unknow)

What about them? Show me where I said they shouldn't be apologised to or compensated. I'm not going to fight everyone's battles, I am sure others are more able and better equipped to do that. You are again trying to start an argument where there isn't one, one of your old tactics and I am not getting into one of your stupid and senseless arguments.

I stand by the statement "Not only were we the forgotten Army, we are the forgotten POW's."

I was a manager for large organisation a few years after the war and I knew many men who had been Japanese POW and I did not know one of them who was able to work to his retirement age. Every single one of them either died early or had to retire from ill health. What gets up my nose is that the Japanese still wont admit that their actions were wrong. Okay they say it was not in their culture to surrender yet when the Japan surrendered many of the top people were doing deals all over the place to escape being tried as a war criminal.

I'm not defending the Japanese point of view but one must take it into account. They viewed surrenderers as cowards. Not many Japs surrendered, fighting men that is. Their point of view is in our point of view unacceptable, but we won and could force it upon them. If it would have been the way around maybe some families would be ashamed of a member that surrendered.

About forgotten and/or unknown. It all depends on what you know. How many heroes are unknown? (the battle for Keren ao).

I am Sorry, I still have any questions want to ask: The European said our Chinese assistaince and trade with African, are want to exploit the materials and mineral. even take Africa as colony like west countries.

Our Chinese don't take black people for slaves like some countries. don't sell any weapons to Africans in African civil wars. Let they kill each other!

we just gives some finacial assistance and trade our goods to African people. Why cause the west countries envy and assuse?? The African can't produce iceboxs, TV, computers,printers ,mobile phones,machines,Generator ,motorcycles ,engine etc..... ,many products.

If they buy the same products that made in west countries. The price are three times than Chinese products. The African can't affordable. We improve the daylife quality of African people.
If we don't get or buy some minerals from African continent. Do you want our Chinese give our products to African people for free?? If China don't buy the mineral from Africans. The Africans had some moneys improve their lives?

If you are a Caucasians, can you tell me the reason?