japan and china, in the future - Page 9




 
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Boots
 
April 19th, 2005  
CABAL
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by loki
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cabal
Nuclear Weapons is not a primitive weapon. It still remains the most fearsome and powerful weapon ever known.

For a country like Japan to produce Nuclear Weapons, would take no more than 4-5 years of completing the task.
Are you sure it would take this long? The Manhatten Project took about 3 years, although there was a lot of research beforehand. I would estimate that to build a working "gun-type" prototype would take Japan less than 6 months. Thats what I meant with "primitive", simply a nuclear weapon that could be dropped by plane, wouldnt need to be very sophisticated or fit a carrier rocket. But I'm not familiar with the foundations of that, seems like countries like North Korea or Iran are struggling with the process. But Japan OTOH is at the forefront of research in many fields of sciences (probably the ITER will be built there), one of the biggest economie and so forth, so thats a different starting position.

Anyways, maybe someone can make a more substantiated guess.
No, you have misunderstood what I have posted. I have said Japan can construct weapons NO MORE THAN 4-5 years, which means they can produce the first nuclear weapon less than 4-5 years.
April 19th, 2005  
MadeInChina
 
Quote:
Japan won't have a chance to repeat what they did during WWII in the present days, if anyone has the potential, it's China. Look at the military grow and the people becoming zealously nationalistic, it's seriously a dangerous combination of characteristics for a powerful country. Being bullied as much as Taiwan has by China now and in the past by Japan, I can totally understand and agree with how the Taiwanese decided to keep silent in all this. Justice and integrity should be exercised when you are given the free mind to express your opinion, but Taiwanese aren't given those opportunities. The current situation is like a new bully arguing with a retired bully, with me being a primary target for the new bully. Sure, in all honesty and in all fairness, I've been bullied at one time in history by both; But am I gonna be stupid and go to the retired bully and say "hey you are a bad bad person" to his face? Probably not, he's retired and won't bother me anytime soon. I'd hope that for the time being, he'll be on my side to fight this new bully. I am quite happy that Taiwanese didn't jump out and hold anti-anti-Japanese protests, because that would be like going to the retired bully and say "wow you are such a nice person and that new bully is mean!", which is like, totally without a spine

Silence is the best approach in this for Taiwan. Forget about how Japan one time bullied Taiwan, modern day China is much more potent in bullying than modern day Japan.

i can say i am very dissapointed in your comment zyca, simply shaking my head right now
April 19th, 2005  
Boobies
 
 

Topic: Well...


WWII was a war of racism and race supremacy. The issue is about reclaim justice and integrity for the wrong Japan committed, not another leverage for TW people to claim independence.

The blacks fought for freedom and justice for near 200 years. And they are, with many other minorities still fighting for equality and truthful representation in the United States at this very moment.

READ THIS: If without the United States government's right attitude in dealing with race, equality, freedom, integrity, and liberty, would you think the blacks and other minorities stop the fight for admission of atrocities and wrong on past racist policies and laws? Do you think the blacks, Mexicans, and other minorities would cease the fight for justice, change of law and racism attitude in the US because the government loans, investment in the ghettos, yet without proper apiologies from the government and exposure of historical event in the educational system?

I can tell you what makes the US great is the people here keeps on fighting until the right is served, no matter how much sugar and frosting are painted around them and how long it takes to get it right. They will fight until it is right without any STRINGS attached and baggages. Would you agree that TW should fight for the apiologies from Japan on WWII mistreatment until the justice and integrity is served, like the blacks, Mexicans, and other minorities in the US (in turns of principle on WWII issues, not independence from China)?

So, you do feel that you are well served and satisfied when this person hand you a piece of candy after humiliating you, yet refuse to say "Sorry" and continuously saying the beating was liberating for you, you keep silence because you want to borrow his Mercedes so you can experience freedom? So, from your understanding, Japanese can do the ultimate the evil, yet, it is ok in your books because you elect others to be your enemy.

Japan doesn't have to act bully to treat TW as a tool and secondary citizen again and again. Racism does not have to appear in physical form.

Btw, You claim Japan would never acting bully towards TW ever again. Yet, I saw Japan bully TW in the event of Diao Yu Island a few years ago. Would TW relinquish its claim of Diao Yu Island in exchange for the support of independence? I sure see Japan is trying to bully Korea in getting the rights of the island (WWII issue again). However, Korea has the balls to stand up and flip Japan off, allies or not.

THIS PROTEST AND MOVEMENT IS ABOUT RACISM AND RACE SUPREMACY. Dig?
--
Boots
April 19th, 2005  
Zyca
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadeInChina
i can say i am very dissapointed in your comment zyca, simply shaking my head right now
And I can say I am not surprised. Silence from Taiwan is bound to disappoint many, such as the Chinese members on this board. But it's nothing different from my getting disappointed that it's so hard to get anyone to try to understand rather than to judge--it's a reality, and a consequence of the current situation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boobies
WWII was a war of racism and race supremacy. The issue is about reclaim justice and integrity for the wrong Japan committed, not another leverage for TW people to claim independence.

The blacks fought for freedom and justice for near 200 years. And they are, with many other minorities still fighting for equality and truthful representation in the United States at this very moment.

READ THIS: If without the United States government's right attitude in dealing with race, equality, freedom, integrity, and liberty, would you think the blacks and other minorities stop the fight for admission of atrocities and wrong on past racist policies and laws? Do you think the blacks, Mexicans, and other minorities would cease the fight for justice, change of law and racism attitude in the US because the government loans, investment in the ghettos, yet without proper apiologies from the government and exposure of historical event in the educational system?

I can tell you what makes the US great is the people here keeps on fighting until the right is served, no matter how much sugar and frosting are painted around them and how long it takes to get it right. They will fight until it is right without any STRINGS attached and baggages. Would you agree that TW should fight for the apiologies from Japan on WWII mistreatment until the justice and integrity is served, like the blacks, Mexicans, and other minorities in the US (in turns of principle on WWII issues, not independence from China)?

So, you do feel that you are well served and satisfied when this person hand you a piece of candy after humiliating you, yet refuse to say "Sorry" and continuously saying the beating was liberating for you, you keep silence because you want to borrow his Mercedes so you can experience freedom? So, from your understanding, Japanese can do the ultimate the evil, yet, it is ok in your books because you elect others to be your enemy.

Japan doesn't have to act bully to treat TW as a tool and secondary citizen again and again. Racism does not have to appear in physical form.

Btw, You claim Japan would never acting bully towards TW ever again. Yet, I saw Japan bully TW in the event of Diao Yu Island a few years ago. Would TW relinquish its claim of Diao Yu Island in exchange for the support of independence? I sure see Japan is trying to bully Korea in getting the rights of the island (WWII issue again). However, Korea has the balls to stand up and flip Japan off, allies or not.

THIS PROTEST AND MOVEMENT IS ABOUT RACISM AND RACE SUPREMACY. Dig?
We are not getting ourselves stuck in between China and Japan. Like I said, there was no anti-anti-Japan protests in Taiwan, we simply didn't go and throw stones at Japanese people on streets or echo the Chinese.

Boobies, are you saying that Taiwanese should join Chinese in anti-Japan protests because the Japanese are racist? It's not like we are still being ruled by imperial Japan, and the more pathetic party in a racism situation is the one who fails to acknowledge differences. From your comments I get the jig that you think Taiwanese are in love with the Japanese, which isn't true; We don't think it's OK for the Japanese to deny the past crimes, and we have demonstrated it differently in the past. I don't remember one as violent as recent ones but I do remember the government issuing formal protest to the Japanese government.

Know this, we didn't elect a new enemy one morning randomly after waking up, the enemy presents himself in front of us. I don't see Japan deploying missiles aiming at Taiwan, and I don't see Japan making claims that "Taiwan is an inseparable part of us". It's not about forgetting the past, it's about thinking forward. The past served us an image and taught us how difficult it was to be ruled by outsiders, and guess who's knocking on the door wanting to be next?

China claims Diao Yu islands too, and we backed down because we knew we couldn't protect it. This is actually a good example of why you choose the lesser evil, a China who prides itself in conquering Taiwan or a Japan who presents far less danger? It is so easy to judge the others, but why not take a look in the mirror and wonder why things happen the ways they do?

In an ideal world, people would always stay neutral and decide rights and wrongs without prejudice. There is no "holier than thou" mentality in any reason I gave. There's only the harsh reality and tough choices that need to be made continously.
April 19th, 2005  
Boobies
 
 

Topic: Ok...


Did I ever suggest TW should have a violent protest similar to China? I perceive this event as an Asian event instead of just Chinese, because the war affected Asia instead of China alone. We may believe in different system yet we may share same experiences. Speaking out Japanese injustice along with Chinese does not naturally make you Chinese, or identityless, or unTaiwanese. It is just we shared the same shame and torture as human being which I hope TW does not elect to set aside the truth for some political conveniences

One more question, a TW politician went to Yakusuni Shrine to pay tribute. And there are 14 Class A war criminals enshrined there. Now, why can't TW remove its soldiers remains out of that shrine and bring them back to TW? Just puzzle me.
April 19th, 2005  
loki
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cabal
No, you have misunderstood what I have posted. I have said Japan can construct weapons NO MORE THAN 4-5 years, which means they can produce the first nuclear weapon less than 4-5 years.
Ah, ok so 4-5 years would be an upper bound. But what do you think would be a minimum timeframe needed to build nuclear weapons? I guess the most time-consuming part for Japan would be building the needed facilities. I dont think getting certain materials (i.e. gas centrifuges,...) would be a problem as much as it is for rogue states like Iran or PRK.
April 19th, 2005  
Boobies
 
 

Topic: Japan


With Japan's efficiency, I facilities is not even a concern at all. I believe Japan can get everything riolling in just matter of two years.
April 19th, 2005  
Zyca
 
 

Topic: Re: Ok...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Boobies
Did I ever suggest TW should have a violent protest similar to China? I perceive this event as an Asian event instead of just Chinese, because the war affected Asia instead of China alone. We may believe in different system yet we may share same experiences. Speaking out Japanese injustice along with Chinese does not naturally make you Chinese, or identityless, or unTaiwanese. It is just we shared the same shame and torture as human being which I hope TW does not elect to set aside the truth for some political conveniences

One more question, a TW politician went to Yakusuni Shrine to pay tribute. And there are 14 Class A war criminals enshrined there. Now, why can't TW remove its soldiers remains out of that shrine and bring them back to TW? Just puzzle me.
Boobies, from what I feel, Taiwanese do not share the same level of hate for Japanese as Chinese or Koreans. There are more 228 protests than anti-Japanese protests because we feel more strongly about it. (much like how Chinese are affected by the Nanking massacre) On top of everything, China is what we truly worry about. The strong will not understand how the weak must consider more things before acting--we've got more to lose. I do not agree with the Japanese on not admitting to mistakes and correcting them by apologizing, but keeping silent is the only thing that won't get us in bigger trouble. That's what I meant, things happen the way they do for a reason. I am not blaming China for this, but China's threats to Taiwan definitely made us think twice about doing anything.

The protests, to me, are eruptions of emotions right now. When two people fight in emotions and you join one side, what happens when they reconcile? You'll have for sure one enemy who will not thank you (China), and you'll have another who probably will hold a grude against you (Japan). Why would you want to get yourself in that kind of trouble? For justice? Who's gonna give YOU justice?

The question you have I actually already discussed with my Taiwanese friends, and the majority including myself do not agree with his action to the shrine. We believe that there's a line we shouldn't cross and he crossed it. It was wrong to pay tribute to a shrine with strong symbolic meanings. He said he went to pay tribute to the 20,000 soldiers died in WWII, but we believe we should've taken the souls back to Taiwan and erect a shrine of our own instead of leaving them buried alongside criminals. In general, the public disagreed with him.
April 19th, 2005  
Boobies
 
 
With Japan's efficiency, I facilities is not even a concern at all. I believe Japan can get everything rolling in just matter of two years.

Zyca, Europe took care of WWII issue in a grand scale, enemy or not. Japan holds strategic value to the west. Naturally, many westerners choose to defend Japan on many issues for China is a nation of difference. However, truth and justice do not have boundary of beliefs nor practice of system. Especially, the event was international.

Knocking on your door by China, because it still believe Taiwan is a part of its sovereign. It should not be discussed here but the TW create some kind of leverage with Japan by keeping silence.

You suggest to forget the past. Well, let me ask you, how can you forget the past when Japanese keep whitewashing its history text books. Answer me this, what do you think the Blacks would do if the US whitewash the history on slavery? Do you still suggest the Blacks to forget the past and think forward?

You think Japan is not and no longer a racist towards TW because it has economic tides with TW and signing a contract of protecting TW in the event of a war. Changing history text book and refussal of apologizing are not form of racism and disrespect? Once again, racism does not need to occupy over your land to succeed and practiced.

From your writing, I can see you value strategic importance of political positioning on this matter while I elect to uphold justice be served in this event. Yes, we should not judge upon others, yet there are things like denial of history by Japan need to be judged, just like the way you judge Tienanmen square and the Great Leap Forward.

I don't mean You as You, Zyca, rather TW in general. I know your position in Japanese occupation of TW.
April 19th, 2005  
Zyca
 
 
It's not about forgetting the past, it's about learning from it. Japan apparently failed to learn, and in the end the one who fails to learn is the one who will fail again. We learned that we shouldn't be ruled by outsiders, and we decided to focus on what we learned rather than what happened. What did the Chinese learn from the past? It's not to hate and to seek revenge, I'd hope.

Once again, I am not agreeing with the Japanese, maybe I am just not communicating myself well enough. This is an emotional battle that no one will come out righteous, so staying out of the way is not for nor against. It's not something we want to focus on since we got more important things to do. Do you believe the rest of the world are all supporting Japan on this matter by not speaking up? The UN warned China and Japan both on this matter.

Upholding justice selectively becomes injustice. Most of us are guilty of it, we pick and choose what we want to fight for. Taiwanese are fighting for a different justice right now, and if that's wrong in someone's eyes, it's just harsh reality.