japan and china, in the future - Page 7




 
--
Boots
 
April 16th, 2005  
loki
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadeInChina
exactly, china is a great power, the term superpower is justified for china
Its not like "great" and "super" were just valuing adjectives in this context. Like "China is so cool, its a super power!!!". These are technical terms and (more or less) accurately defined.
The part that China lacks is the abbility to apply its military potential globally. China is the predominant force regionally, but its not like those guys in Beijing could just decide "Iraq needs a new government." and implement that goal the way the US can.

Regards, loki
April 17th, 2005  
Redneck
 
 
There will be no country bashing on this forum. Any repeat performance will get you banned Ezechial.
April 17th, 2005  
Boobies
 
 

Topic: LOL...


Once again, Xion, the whole protest is about WWII crime and Japan's action of Changing History recordings in the Text Book. Let me say it again, CHANGING HISTORY IN THE TEXT BOOKS.

It is not ok to use Tibet in the 60s and Tienanmn Square of the 89 to justify 1930-1845. Two different events.

I see alot of people here keep the attitude about China being the ultimate evil day-in-and-day-out because of the political system. Chinese are human too, they too deserve justice served like Europeans no matter they are commie red bastards or socialistic pigs.

Lot of people denounce China's call for justice merely an unreasonable request. Why? Is it because Japan is an ally of the US and a rich country? Rich country should avoid the responsibilites because other country is commie pig and the CHINKs are not human?

It is funny that people ask the victim to calm down while the aggressor enjoys the protecton of law and sympathy of others. Xion, do you understand and sympathize the Chinese in this matter? I will have to ask you put aside the anger of Indo-China war and look into WWII. Do you think Japan deserve the sympathy from you. Will you demand the Japanese governement do the right thing instead unloading anger upon the Chinese?

In this senario, I beat you up badly and called you "sick man of the east", many months later, I refuse to apologize to you by using the account of you beating up your brother in a fight a few days earlier and start telling everyone the reason I beat you up many months ago was a trial of shaping up for you need it badly. How would you feel? only
--
Boots
April 17th, 2005  
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Once again, Xion, the whole protest is about WWII crime and Japan's action of Changing History recordings in the Text Book. Let me say it again, CHANGING HISTORY IN THE TEXT BOOKS.
Just a brief question:
Why is this surfacing again, isnt it a bit late to be protesting Japanese war crimes 70 years after the event?.

Lets be a little realistic here and say that "war crimes" are nothing new, every occupying power from earliest empires to the current batch of wars has commited them.

Quote:
I see alot of people here keep the attitude about China being the ultimate evil day-in-and-day-out because of the political system.
This I agree with you on, however you have to understand that this is a natural "fear" response after all sometime in the future China will usurp the current superpower and that never goes down well.
April 17th, 2005  
CABAL
 
 
Everyone, especially Xion, listen to the Moderator's advisory. Some of the off topic and repitative posts lack insights which can cause flame wars with several of our fellow Chinese Users here.
Admin edit: Please use the report post button if you find any off-topic posts. thanks.

Okay. It appears that the political Discussions are surged with China related discussions, although I am not disagreeing with the notion. Asia perhaps might be the focal point of Discussions for the early 21st Century and I respect this debate.

Quote:
This I agree with you on, however you have to understand that this is a natural "fear" response after all sometime in the future China will usurp the current superpower and that never goes down well.
I certainly agree with you.

The main reason why people fear is because of education. Many of the educational systems and media coverages across the world can sometimes bring forth jealousy, lies, deceit, exegerrating tales, misinterpretations and misunderstanding purposely. I cannot think of a nation in this world, which is not nuetral or involved in any conflict in their history, unable to avoid mistrust.
April 17th, 2005  
Boobies
 
 

Topic: Ah


MontyB, it will not surface again if Japanese governement restrain from changing the true reason of why Japan invaded China and many other Asian countires in their history books in the 90s and recently. Japan's version of invasion was target to "Liberate China and Asia from the Domination of the West". Now, this is a glorified version of Japanese history and insulting to the victims, no?

For example, what if Germans one day declare in their high text books that the invasion of Europe and Africa was a move to liberate those country from English, French, and Russian domination.
April 17th, 2005  
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
MontyB, it will not surface again if Japanese governement restrain from changing the true reason of why Japan invaded China and many other Asian countires in their history books in the 90s and recently. Japan's version of invasion was target to "Liberate China and Asia from the Domination of the West". Now, this is a glorified version of Japanese history and insulting to the victims, no?
The only insult in this is that they believed people would buy their excuses but this is no different to most "modern" wars where the agressor feels a need to make themselves either the victim (ie Polish attacks on German border posts) or they are heroically "liberating" an opressed people (ie Japan in S.E.A or the US in Iraq) in the end I think its more for home propaganda than it for world acceptance after all few nations want to be seen as the agressor.
So basically its more an insult to peoples intelligence.



Quote:
For example, what if Germans one day declare in their high text books that the invasion of Europe and Africa was a move to liberate those country from English, French, and Russian domination.
I would assume that the Germans had developed a sense of humour since I was last there.
<---- = joking
I doubt anyone would take it seriously because as was once said 'History is written by the victor", no matter how they try to excuse things history is the only record of fact and you cant change the past.

Out of interest can I suggest checking this news article out:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4453055.stm

If you scroll down to the bottom of the page there is a further link

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/h...pan/html/1.stm

I tend to agree with the guy in picture 5.
April 17th, 2005  
Boobies
 
 

Topic: MontyB


Monty, in order to forgive, other person can not constantly rewrite the course of history base on their interest only, especially if was an international event.

The blacks in the United States fought near 200 years for their rights and freedom. What do you think if one day the United States of America republish its text books that states the segregation and the raistsm was a liberation for the blacks rather an exploit. Do you think it is right for the governement to do so base on the notion of every government is to cover up? Do you think the blacks would forgive if the US government elects to do so?

In Japan's case, if one day all Japanese text books are to show the invasion of Asia was a liberation instead of an exploit, do you still think it is a right thing to do?

In your first paragraph, you said victor writes history. It sounds very negative towards that piece of history. Do you think America, England, Australia, China, Korea, Russia, and other allies were wrong in writing that piece of history? If wrong, please state where it went wrong?

You cleverly said Germany has developed the WWII into a joke. Is it offensive towards Jews and Polish and other Europeans? Did the joke state Hitler was the savior of Europe by liberating all of them? You still has not answer my quetion what happens if one day Japanese kids no longer read anything about Japan being the aggressor instead, a LIBERATOR in WWII? Do you think it is justified? If yes, well what can I say, you may consider allies were the agressor who went out to destroy Germany and Japan? If not, what needs to be done towards recording of history for the next generation?
April 17th, 2005  
MontyB
 
 

Topic: Re: MontyB


Quote:
Originally Posted by Boobies
Monty, in order to forgive, other person can not constantly rewrite the course of history base on their interest only, especially if was an international event.

The blacks in the United States fought near 200 years for their rights and freedom. What do you think if one day the United States of America republish its text books that states the segregation and the raistsm was a liberation for the blacks rather an exploit. Do you think it is right for the governement to do so base on the notion of every government is to cover up? Do you think the blacks would forgive if the US government elects to do so?

In Japan's case, if one day all Japanese text books are to show the invasion of Asia was a liberation instead of an exploit, do you still think it is a right thing to do?

You cleverly said Germany has developed the WWII into a joke. Is it offensive towards Jews and Polish and other Europeans? Did the joke state Hitler was the savior of Europe by liberating all of them? You still has not answer my quetion what happens if one day Japanese kids no longer read anything about Japan being the aggressor instead a LIBERATOR in WWII? Do you think it is justified?
I think you have misunderstood me:
Quote:
You cleverly said Germany has developed the WWII into a joke. Is it offensive towards Jews and Polish and other Europeans?
No I said I was joking about the Germans developing a sense of humour since I was last there.
WW2 was by no means a joke.

My point was that no matter what the Japanese choose to believe internally they cant rewrite history and that is something they will have to live with worldwide eternally however I do believe that at some point while we should never forget these actions we should move on.

Quote:
What do you think if one day the United States of America republish its text books that states the segregation and the raistsm was a liberation for the blacks rather an exploit.
To be honest some parts of the US still believe that (KKK etc.), it doesn't make them right it just makes them laughable.

I am not saying the Chinese have no right to be aggrieved by Japanese actions, I am not saying that Japanese actions should be forgotten, I am simply saying that holding protests 70 years later is kind of pointless and that its time to move on with a knowledge that those actions can never be allowed to happen again.
April 17th, 2005  
Boobies
 
 

Topic: Ok...


Sorry misreading some of your post. I can understand your point of views. However, the blacks in the States never got deserved respect, freedom, and liberty until 1970s. What do you think they did? They protested and exposed the injustice until the government acknowledge the short comings. So they changed the law and implement teachings that educate the youth to prevent such injustice happening again. Now things moved on, the black issue is no longer a dramatic one. people moved on because justice served through law and education.

Now I don't like to see the violent side of the protest happening. Chinese people have no right to harm or destroy Japanese people and properties. I hope things can work it out between Japan and China in the near future.

The other thing that concerns many Asian is Japan's educational system is nowhere near the western style. It doesn't stimulate expository and independent thinking but rather regurgitate. Japan as a society is a homogenous in thinking rather than open-minded. It is a society with western technological advancement but lack of social openness and responsibilities (not talking about Environmental policies). That is why its eevry move is very suspicious to South-East Asian countries.