The Jane Fonda of our war?

Team Infidel

Forum Spin Doctor
This FORMER General won't keep her :cen: :cen: mouth shut about the crap she pulled at Abu Ghraib, and this gets American soldiers killed.






Former Abu Ghraib commander's book aims to tell her side of the story

Published Tue, Oct 11, 2005

By PENNY STARR
The Island Packet


HILTON HEAD ISLAND -- Sitting in her comfortable home on Hilton Head Island, it's clear Col. Janis Karpinski is far from the grim and scandal-haunted corridors of Abu Ghraib prison in Baghdad.

She doesn't carry a gun when she goes for a daily run on the beach, and the closest hint of the military is the small red, white and blue flag pinned to her civilian clothes.

But she remains at war.

"Look how they've tormented me, what they've taken away from me," Karpinski said of being relieved of command and her demotion from brigadier general to colonel after allegations that dereliction of duty led to the prisoner abuse at Abu Ghraib.

On July 1, after more than a 28-year military career, Karpinski became a regular American citizen -- a citizen with a passion even stronger than her love of soldiering: Clearing her name. Karpinski, 52, has written a book, "One Woman's Army, the Commanding General of Abu Ghraib Tells Her Story," that she hopes will do just that.

But even the title of the book indicates how the truth about the prisoner abuse scandal -- and who is responsible for it -- can be as elusive as a seemingly stellar career brought to a sudden end.

As commanding general of the reserve unit responsible for overseeing the chaotic prison system in Iraq, Karpinski said she wasn't in charge of Abu Ghraib at the time of the scandal.

It was Gen. Geoffrey Miller, commander of the detention center at Guantanamo Bay -- a change in command she believes was ordered and endorsed by Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld in order to interrogate "security detainees," whom authorities hoped could lead them to Saddam Hussein.

"How could (the military) hold me accountable when I had no direct access?" Karpinski said. "How come they didn't hold Rumsfeld accountable. How is that possible?"

But, according to Karpinski, the story is much more complicated, from a "muddled" chain of command to a constantly changing military and State Department plan -- or lack thereof.

As commander of the 800th Military Police Brigade, Karpinski's mission was to guard prisoners of war. When President Bush declared an end to hostilities in May 2003, the goal of the more than 3,000 reserve soldiers under her command was to oversee the release of those prisoners of war.

Abu Ghraib had, in fact, never been intended to be a prison, she said, but a clearinghouse to process and transport those arrested by the military to other prisons around Iraq.

But the summer before the infamous photographs of prisoners on dog leashes and pyramids of naked men became public in November 2004, Karpinski said, Abu Ghraib was transformed into the center of interrogation in Iraq -- at the behest of Miller.

"He told me he wanted control (of Abu Ghraib)," she said. "I told him it wasn't mine to give. He'd have to ask (Ambassador Paul) Bremer," former administrator of the U.S.-led occupation.

Karpinski said she first learned of the photographs by e-mail in January 2004 and wasn't formally questioned about the alleged abuse until the Army's Criminal Investigation Division interrogated her as part of a Pentagon-ordered probe.

And she said she was never given access to the seven soldiers in the 372nd military police company that were under her command and were charged in the investigation.

"I've never spoken to any of them," Karpinski said.

She did meet with Gen. Ricardo Sanchez, who reprimanded her for the photographs, told her corrective action would be taken and forbade her from speaking publicly about them -- a move she said positioned her "to take the fall, not him."

Throughout the book, Karpinski also tells about the hardships of rising through the ranks in the male-dominated military, including sexual harassment. In the end, she believes being female was one of the reasons she became a target in the abuse scandal.

And, she said, the Bush administration and the military couldn't let accountability stop with enlisted reservists.

"They wanted to satisfy people who wanted punishment of people in high places," she said.

On April 8, Karpinski was formally relieved of command of the 800th Military Police Brigade. On May 5, President George Bush approved her demotion.

The charges against her included dereliction of duty, making a material misrepresentation to investigators, failure to obey a lawful order and shoplifting. Only the dereliction of duty and shoplifting -- an unsubstantiated charge, she claims, dating back years -- remain.

Despite the ordeal, Karpinski said she still loves the military and is proud of her accomplishments, including a Bronze Star from the first Gulf War and her work as the leader of a special mission to train Arab women as a fighting force in the Middle East.

She said she hopes her book also will help end mistreatment of the women in the military. But she admits her experiences can't be inspiring to women in what she sees as an uphill battle for equality.

"I think it could hurt women," she said.

And for now, at least, very few people are suffering following one of the darkest moments for the military in Iraq.

"No one else is sitting in prison with (Charles) Graner and Lynndie England," she said.

Karpinski has accepted her fate, she said, but she hopes victory isn't impossible.

"I hope people continue to pursue the truth," she said, "because the truth about the war and Abu Ghraib hasn't been told. People should demand the truth and accountability."
 
The characterization of her as the "Jane Fonda" of the war does a disservice to Jane Fonda. Col. Karpinski doesn't come close to what Jane did. I believe Col. Karpinski is the fall guy/gal of the whole mess.
 
Thats a pretty unfair comparison.

Karpinski served her country Fonda openly opposed it. The Fact Karpinski decided she didnt want to be the Abu Graib scapegoat (IMHO for Rumsfeld) doesnt make her a traitor.
 
Its very unfair. I for one feel they need to talk about what going on and show the footage and photos to try and stop this happening ever again. Imagine after world war 2 if not one German got to see anything of the halocaust. Many claimed they had no idea what happened in their name. We have such limited showing there are people who believe the slaughter didn't even happen. If we don't confront atrocities and sweep them under the covers they just continue to happen. The people who are causing our troops to die are those that did the abuse and approved its use. Those who would veto antitorture legistration. Those who think its fine to abuse people and that the end justifies the mean. It doesn't help that people just want to forget that sometimes we do really bad things in combat and want to pass it off as how we're so wonderful and our enemies are evil and we can do no wrong. Its just wrong and needs to stop.
 
So, what's wrong with someone searching for justice?

I agree with Limeyfellow; abuse should not be allowed to happen. Deaths don't occur from being made accountable. Deaths occur when those in power are not being made accountable.
 
The problem here is that she is STILL spouting off about what she thinks is still going on at Abu Ghraib and she has been gone from this country for over a year now. In fact, she is out of the military. She has not idea of the changes and "adult" supervision that is taking place when it comes to the care and custody of the :cen: detainees that are rolled up.

This is a stunt to sell more books and she is putting my brothers in arms in jeopordy to make a buck. WTF, over?
 
The thing is she was in charge of the prison, did she ever go around the inside and carry out spot checks on what was going on, or did she just stay in her office all day. She just can't get away with saying I did not know anything about what was going on, it was her job to know.
 
LeEnfield 2

Thats not really the issue. Whether she knew about it, or didnt know about it she was negligent in her duties and she was punished for it. She should have written a letter of protest, requested a transfer, or resigned. Instead she just closed her eyes. Her career was over regardless.

The issue is there is a strong possibility (Id say almost certainity) that they were all covering up for higher-ups in the military. There were CIA Agents, Military Intelligence Officiers, and at least one instance of the Isreali Mossad as well who made regular visits. Karpiniski beef is not that she was punished, she knowledged her responibility on a interview with CNN Larry King. But that she was made a scapegoat by the Pentagon, she took all the heat when people like Rumsfeld didnt get a scratch. She said what happened at Abu Garab was orders coming directly from the Pentagon. When you hear of cases of abuse in Gitmo and in Afganistan as well as Bush threatening to veto the anti-torture bill it makes it very hard to believe the "few rotton apples" story the Pentagon would like you to believe.
 
LeEnfield 2 said:
The thing is she was in charge of the prison, did she ever go around the inside and carry out spot checks on what was going on, or did she just stay in her office all day. She just can't get away with saying I did not know anything about what was going on, it was her job to know.

A General of her stature has aides to keep her filled in on everything that goes on under her command. I think the job was a little over her head and she should have acknowledged that in writing to the Pentagon.
 
Seems to me that this is what happens when we promote folks on the basis of affirmative action instead of ability.

On the other hand, look at David Hackworth. Didn't make General, and was allowd to retire to avoid a court-martial. He spent the rest of his life bad-moputhing the mi;itary.
 
I know a retired USAR Colonel (O-6) who says he knows her; the fact that he refused to say anything publicly (good or bad) about her spoke volumes to me.

And to think I was going to apply for one of the 67A slots in the 800th MP BDE this past summer. :shock:
 
LeEnfield 2 said:
The thing is she was in charge of the prison, did she ever go around the inside and carry out spot checks on what was going on, or did she just stay in her office all day. She just can't get away with saying I did not know anything about what was going on, it was her job to know.


I agree. I also dislike her blaming Rummy for part of this, what makes her think if she didn't know anything that he was going to know anything. There are other higher-ups in theater. She should complain about them, but instead she blames the Sec. Def. Besides that’s kind of a big accusation, blame the Sec. Def.?

Anyone remember Col. North getting scapegoat for Iran contra?
 
I dont know about this idjit being the Fonda of this war but I do believe that most of the leadership of the DNC is competeing to be the John Kerry of this war.
 
Missileer said:
LeEnfield 2 said:
The thing is she was in charge of the prison, did she ever go around the inside and carry out spot checks on what was going on, or did she just stay in her office all day. She just can't get away with saying I did not know anything about what was going on, it was her job to know.

A General of her stature has aides to keep her filled in on everything that goes on under her command. I think the job was a little over her head and she should have acknowledged that in writing to the Pentagon.


She was responsible for everything that did or did not happen in that detention facility. If she didn't know what was going on, then she was incompetent. If she did, she lied.

She would have had one aide de camp, and it sure as hell wasn't his/her job to tell the General what was going on in that facility. It was the responsibility of her officers to make sure that the facility runs according to her guidance.
 
She's just trying to clear her name I think. It's a huge leap to compare her to Jane Fonda, it's not like she got pictures of her smiling and sitting on Iraqi artillery shooting down american planes.
 
Ummmm.... not up to speed (unfourtunately) can someone fill me in on Jane Fonda? I Have gathered she was an Anti-War activist, but I don't quite understand the level she took it to.
Hopeful
 
Tom Hayden and Jane Fonda being interviewed after their return from North Vietnam. Jane Fonda tells the world press that the American Prisoners of War were being well treated and not tortured.

Although that slightly differs from Sen. McCain's accounts (http://www.usvetdsp.com/story22.htm).

JaneFonda-MugShot.jpg
[/url]
 
That 1ST Cav Medic link is excellent. I think it should shed some light on Hanoi Jane's nefarious deeds for those too young to recall.
 
Which side is telling the truth.

Karpinski served her country honorably for more than 28 years - Fonda openly opposed it. Those that are comparing Karpinski to Fonda evidently don't have my memories or they wouldn't make the comparison. Fonda was a traitor as far as I was concerned and nothing has occurred in all these intervening years to change my mind (nor will it ever-period). [Well enough of that!].

If you believe Karpinski, when she stated:

"It was Gen. Geoffrey Miller, commander of the detention center at Guantanamo Bay -- a change in command I believe was ordered and endorsed by Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld in order to interrogate "security detainees," whom authorities hoped could lead them to Saddam Hussein. How could (the military) hold me accountable when I had no direct access? How come they didn't hold Rumsfeld accountable. How is that possible?"

How could Karpinski, after more than a 28-year military career be held accountable when she WAS NOT in the chain of command for Abu Ghraib Prison anymore and exercised absolutely no control over operations within the prison at the time of the prisoner abuse.

Saying that she was responsible for the actions of the 800th Military Police Brigade would make sense if she had been allowed access and control of the brigade. According to Karpinski, she had been placed in a subordinate position and was only a figurehead with Gen. Geoffrey Miller holding the actual command of ALL MPs and forces associated with the debacle. She wasn't even allowed access to the prisoners, guards or the prison at that time.

The Bush administration and the military couldn't let accountability stop with enlisted reservists.

"They wanted to satisfy people who wanted punishment of people in high places," she said.

On April 8, Karpinski was formally relieved of command of the 800th Military Police Brigade (even though she maintains she was nothing but a figurehead at the time).

We have seen similar circumstances where a junior officer was held out as the scapegoat while senior officers were protected from the rightful justice they so richly deserve (example -the courts-martial of Lt. Calley and the massacre at My Lai village - Vietnam).

In this case the responsibility should have been portioned out to Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, Vice President Chaney and President Bush. This kind of abuse doesn't just happen, it has to come from the top (keep in mind that the Bush administration has micromanaged everything concerning Iraq so far).

As veterans that have been through the river and over the mountain, we all know that there was more than just one senior person responsible for what happened at Abu Ghraib, remember what happened to Lt. Calley.

Brigadier General (not Colonel) Karpinski was treated as a scapegoat and anyone with the brains of a sand flea knows it.
The Courts Martial is/was a miscarriage of justice (my opinion).

The truth depends on who is still standing and who is telling the tale.

Just for informational sake, I have taken Karpinski at her word - I have seen nothing so far that has contradicted her account. If you have information which could cast doubt on her account, please post it and if possible give the source of your information. My mind is still open on this one.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top