Israeli terrorism - the first Minutes of Gaza Attack

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlfhoU66s4Y"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlfhoU66s4Y[/ame]
THIS IS A SONG ABOUT HUMAN RIGHTS, NOT RELIGION. It is a song of hope for the Palestinians in Gaza. Composed and performed by Michael Heart
 
To imply that the Palestinians are terrorists would be the same as calling the Marquis terrorists. They are merely resisting an occupying force by whatever means are at their disposal.

If the Palestinians were armed and supported by a third party as The Israelis are, you would see a marked reduction in these alleged "terror" attacks, if you have guided weapons there is little reason for suicide bombers or overgrown fireworks referred to by the Israelis as "rocket attacks". More children are killed and injured by fireworks than Israelis by these toys.

It all comes down to the age old saying, "One man's terrorist is another man's patriot".

My only criticism about the Palestinians is that they have deliberately targeted civilians. By doing so they have sunk to the level of the Israelis and that's unfortunate as it gives the Israelis PR ammunition. Firing rockets into homes accomplishes little other than make the Israelis more stubborn and defiant.

What they should instead do is attack economic and infrastructure targets as well as military ones. Make the occupation as miserable on the settlers as they can. Sooner or later the Israelis are going to get tired of someone blowing up the power plants, or the water lines or the bridges and will be more willing to make a deal to make it stop..

Which is precisely what the Maquis did, although the Maquis did some pretty awful stuff too.
 
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Senojekips, again you are hijacking a new tread by venting your hatred against Israel. Wouldn't it be better to write something about the clip in post #1 from Mootaz-Khelifi, preferably something productive. We all try to find out what happend there.

second, if you write something like this :
Washington Report on Middle East Affairs, May-June 2009, pages 16-17
Gaza on the Ground
Israel Rejects Own Soldiers’ Accounts of Gaza Atrocities

By Mohammed Omer

give a link so we can verify it. I looked it up here: Israel Rejects Own Soldiers’ Accounts of Gaza Atrocities , not the same story.
 
THIS IS A SONG ABOUT HUMAN RIGHTS, NOT RELIGION. It is a song of hope for the Palestinians in Gaza. Composed and performed by Michael Heart

What has this propaganda video to do with "the first minutes of the Gaza attack"?

BTW that F-16's landing gear is down so it is definitely not attacking.
 
Senojekips, again you are hijacking a new tread by venting your hatred against Israel. Wouldn't it be better to write something about the clip in post #1 from Mootaz-Khelifi, preferably something productive. We all try to find out what happend there.

second, if you write something like this :

give a link so we can verify it. I looked it up here: Israel Rejects Own Soldiers’ Accounts of Gaza Atrocities , not the same story.
As an Israeli apologist you have no right to be making recommendations to anyone, as to what they post. How could anyone with an ounce of moral backbone do anything other than "vent hatred" against the IDF and their Zionist masters, I would have done exactly the same against the Nazis 70 years ago. I suppose you wouldn't have whined about that?

We know what happened here, it's just that someone has to show the truth before the Israeli apologists drown it with half truths and outright lies. That is why you are here, right? You know as well as i do that articles in the press are constantly written and over written, if you want to check it, you'll have to go to a library and read it for yourself. You can't deny that it happened as even Haaretz wrote about it, as did Associated Press and a dozen other media outlets.http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/2983796...eli-soldiers-shirts-joke-about-killing-arabs/
All of these things are known to have happened and they do accurately demonstrate the mentality of the Zionists.
Your reference to Israel rejecting their own soldiers stories is no more than anyone expected, as they always whitewash every incident. Your links are not worth a fart in a hurricane as they only ever link to Israeli lies and propaganda even to the point of denying video evidence and the corroborated reports of multiple International aid agencies.

BTW that F-16's landing gear is down so it is definitely not attacking.
Your apologies get more pathetic by the day. Even Israeli aircraft eventually have to land after deliberately murdering their quota of women and children.
 
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As an Israeli apologist you have no right to be making recommendations to anyone, as to what they post. How could anyone with an ounce of moral backbone do anything other than "vent hatred" against the IDF and their Zionist masters, I would have done exactly the same against the Nazis 70 years ago. I suppose you wouldn't have whined about that?

We know what happened here, it's just that someone has to show the truth before the Israeli apologists drown it with half truths and outright lies. That is why you are here, right? You know as well as i do that articles in the press are constantly written and over written, if you want to check it, you'll have to go to a library and read it for yourself. You can't deny that it happened as even Haaretz wrote about it, as did Associated Press and a dozen other media outlets.http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/2983796...eli-soldiers-shirts-joke-about-killing-arabs/
All of these things are known to have happened and they do accurately demonstrate the mentality of the Zionists.
Your reference to Israel rejecting their own soldiers stories is no more than anyone expected, as they always whitewash every incident. Your links are not worth a fart in a hurricane as they only ever link to Israeli lies and propaganda even to the point of denying video evidence and the corroborated reports of multiple International aid agencies.

Your apologies get more pathetic by the day. Even Israeli aircraft eventually have to land after deliberately murdering their quota of women and children.

I think nobody here denies the facts, Israel committed atrocities during the Gaza intervention. However, it is much better to use other sources than media. ICC is good source to use.

http://jicj.oxfordjournals.org/content/8/1/3.full.pdf?ijkey=xgXBSjC3cfF4PpU&keytype=ref

Further, I doubt all Israeli soldiers committed warcrimes in Gaza. Many of you here have been soldiers, marines, sailors, and airmen during an armed conflict. Of course accidents occur when you have a split second to decide if you are going to use force or not
 
We know what happened here, it's just that someone has to show the truth before the Israeli apologists drown it with half truths and outright lies. That is why you are here, right? You know as well as i do that articles in the press are constantly written and over written, if you want to check it, you'll have to go to a library and read it for yourself. You can't deny that it happened as even Haaretz wrote about it, as did Associated Press and a dozen other media outlets.

If you know what happend then tell us, in detail please. What weapons did they use? Why is there no crater? Where is the enemy now? If it was an attack why were those people standing toghether in an open place?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/2983796...eli-soldiers-shirts-joke-about-killing-arabs/
All of these things are known to have happened and they do accurately demonstrate the mentality of the Zionists.

No it just demonstrates the mentality of some individuals. Did you bother to read your link yourself? It also said : "They were not manufactured or sanctioned by the military and appear not to have been widely distributed."

Your reference to Israel rejecting their own soldiers stories is no more than anyone expected, as they always whitewash every incident. Your links are not worth a fart in a hurricane as they only ever link to Israeli lies and propaganda even to the point of denying video evidence and the corroborated reports of multiple International aid agencies.

That link goes to the website of the Washington Report on Middle East Affairs, May-June 2009, a report you referred to, and that article is different from what you wrote and said it came from that magazine. But we both know that you do not respect honest reporting.

Your apologies get more pathetic by the day. Even Israeli aircraft eventually have to land after deliberately murdering their quota of women and children.

If you want to prove that planes are attacking then you show planes that are attacking. Maybe that pilot did not even fired a missile. Maybe it was his first flight in an F-16? Maybe it was a test flight after maintenance? Maybe it was one of those pilots that refused to fire it's missiles? But that does not fit your logic, does it?

And if you know what that plane is doing, where did you get your information?

Do you really think that the IDF is going to fire a + $100.000 to kill a civilian?
 
If you know what happend then tell us, in detail please. What weapons did they use? Why is there no crater? Where is the enemy now? If it was an attack why were those people standing toghether in an open place?
What crater are you talking about? I see no crater, I see a shirt? What has the weapons these people use got to do with it?
No it just demonstrates the mentality of some individuals. Did you bother to read your link yourself? It also said : "They were not manufactured or sanctioned by the military and appear not to have been widely distributed."
A typical denial. I never said they were manufactured by the military, I said they were worn by members of the military and this was admitted by them. Sorry you are just trying too hard, I think that you'd better re start your argument as so far it has said nothing at all.

That link goes to the website of the Washington Report on Middle East Affairs, May-June 2009, a report you referred to, and that article is different from what you wrote and said it came from that magazine. But we both know that you do not respect honest reporting.
I dunno about that. the things i write about have dozens of corroborative reports to back them. (All denied by Israel of course)

Do you really think that the IDF is going to fire a + $100.000 to kill a civilian?
But of course. Most of them are either provided by the US or paid for by them anyway. There are dozens of examples of US aircraft using missiles to kill single people on YouTube. You are an idiot. so picky about others information but completely ignorant where your own information is concerned.
 
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What crater are you talking about? I see no crater, I see a shirt? What has the weapons these people use got to do with it?

This tread is about the clip "Israeli terrorism - the first minutes of Gaza attack" not about a T-shirt that some soldiers ordered. I am still waiting what you think what happend in that clip.

A typical denial. I never said they were manufactured by the military, I said they were worn by members of the military and this was admitted by them. Sorry you are just trying too hard, I think that you'd better re start your argument as so far it has said nothing at all.

Your article doesn't mention "were worn by members of the military". In fact those shirts were not allowed by the IDF which called it "Soldiers' anti-Palestinian T-Shirts are 'tasteless'". You blow this thing out of proportion.

I dunno about that. the things i write about have dozens of corroborative reports to back them. (All denied by Israel of course)

You mean fake corroborative reports, because you have posted lots of them. Leaving out sentences, changing words even write totally invented parts.


But of course. Most of them are either provided by the US or paid for by them anyway. There are dozens of examples of US aircraft using missiles to kill single people on YouTube. You are an idiot. so picky about others information but completely ignorant where your own information is concerned.

Professional forces (like Nato, US, Israel and others) doe not plan all those missions to kill a unknown civilian. At worst they are mistakes. You, as a former member of the Australian Navy should know that.
 
Both the Israelis and the Palestinians committed atrocities during the Gaza operation. Is it possible to discuss the situation in the Middle East in constructive matter? What I have read here on this forum, the majority of the discussions about Israel and its neighbors has become very polarized.
If we can recognize other people's position, it is much easier to discuss.

How to handle sources, if we can find at least two independent sources that claim the same facts, then we can be pretty sure it is reliable source. Media can be biased in their interpretation of the facts.




 
This tread is about the clip "Israeli terrorism - the first minutes of Gaza attack" not about a T-shirt that some soldiers ordered. I am still waiting what you think what happend in that clip.
What happened?... they wore the shirts, even the IDF claimed that the act was tasteless,... in their usual ex facto denial of responsibility. Again for the second or third tme it was posted to demonstrate the mentality of IDF soldiers.

You mean fake corroborative reports, because you have posted lots of them. Leaving out sentences, changing words even write totally invented parts.
Yes,.. we all realise that the Red Cross and agencies like Medecins Sans Frontieres are all liars whereas your Facts backed by the Zionist propaganda mill, are all quite correct. You are an idiot.

Professional forces (like Nato, US, Israel and others) doe not plan all those missions to kill a unknown civilian. At worst they are mistakes. You, as a former member of the Australian Navy should know that.
The Royal Australian Navy has never had a policy of harassing, beating and murdering innocent women and children, backed by a rogue state who at worst turns a blind eye to these things and at best justifies them (probably orders them), so there's absolutely no comparison.

You are nearly correct, professional forces shouldn't plan these things, but history shows that they do and the IDF s record is among the worst in this regard. Then again, many would not regard them as a "professional" force anyway, more like the hired killers of a third world banana republic. So many "accidents" and "misunderstandings",.... like the head shot babies and small children posted several days ago,... ??? Surely the most "misunderstood" and "accident" prone force in the world.
 
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What happened?... they wore the shirts, even the IDF claimed that the act was tasteless,... in their usual ex facto denial of responsibility. Again for the second or third tme it was posted to demonstrate the mentality of IDF soldiers.

You are evading my question. Again you are beating around the bush. Is it so diffucult to say what could have happend in the first clip, without ridiculous comments?

Yes,.. we all realise that the Red Cross and agencies like Medecins Sans Frontieres are all liars whereas your Facts backed by the Zionist propaganda mill, are all quite correct. You are an idiot.

Again an evading action by you. You know very well what I am talking about but if the answer doesn't suit you, you change to something else.

The Royal Australian Navy has never had a policy of harassing, beating and murdering innocent women and children, backed by a rogue state who at worst turns a blind eye to these things and at best justifies them (probably orders them), so there's absolutely no comparison.

Another evading tactic and the usual rethoric.

You are nearly correct, professional forces shouldn't plan these things, but history shows that they do and the IDF s record is among the worst in this regard. Then again, many would not regard them as a "professional" force anyway, more like the hired killers of a third world banana republic. So many "accidents" and "misunderstandings",.... like the head shot babies and small children posted several days ago,... ??? Surely the most "misunderstood" and "accident" prone force in the world.

You are totally unaware of the difficulties of urban combat. You surely must admire the parades of the Palestinian militants of Hamas and others, proudly wearing their black uniforms. But when it's time to fight those "brave" men wear civilian clothes (violation of 1949 Geneva Conventions). For the soldier in uniform it is impossible to distinguish between foe or civilian until it might be to late. So the loss of civilian life has more to do with the cowardly fighting tactics of the Islamists than with the IDF.
 
You are evading my question. Again you are beating around the bush. Is it so diffucult to say what could have happend in the first clip, without ridiculous comments?



Again an evading action by you. You know very well what I am talking about but if the answer doesn't suit you, you change to something else.



Another evading tactic and the usual rethoric.



You are totally unaware of the difficulties of urban combat. You surely must admire the parades of the Palestinian militants of Hamas and others, proudly wearing their black uniforms. But when it's time to fight those "brave" men wear civilian clothes (violation of 1949 Geneva Conventions). For the soldier in uniform it is impossible to distinguish between foe or civilian until it might be to late. So the loss of civilian life has more to do with the cowardly fighting tactics of the Islamists than with the IDF.


When I was in the army, we trained for urban terrain, defend and to assault an apt building. This building was to be replaced with a newer one so that gave us a good opportunity to be "violent". I was thinking during this week, what would happen if civilians were mixed between us (defending part and assaulting part) They would probably die or be seriously wounded. I never walked into a room without trowing in a hand grenade first, I if I had walked in to a room without that. Probably I had been killed/wounded or one of the squad members had been killed/wounded. To use flashbangs with the extreme short distance inside an apt building, you know where the door is, even if you cannot see it for few sec

In Gaza, when the civilians had nowhere to go, they cannot escape and evacuate the area. They were in for a hard time.
 
You are evading my question. Again you are beating around the bush. Is it so diffucult to say what could have happend in the first clip, without ridiculous comments?

Again an evading action by you. You know very well what I am talking about but if the answer doesn't suit you, you change to something else.

Another evading tactic and the usual rethoric.

You are totally unaware of the difficulties of urban combat. You surely must admire the parades of the Palestinian militants of Hamas and others, proudly wearing their black uniforms. But when it's time to fight those "brave" men wear civilian clothes (violation of 1949 Geneva Conventions). For the soldier in uniform it is impossible to distinguish between foe or civilian until it might be to late. So the loss of civilian life has more to do with the cowardly fighting tactics of the Islamists than with the IDF.
Your ludicrously stupid statements, got honest answers, answers that you don't like because they are both 100% true and undeniable. (On second thoughts I should withdraw that, as we have seen in the past,... you can just deny anything that does not suit you)

It must be a real bastard to be faced with reality that you can't just lie your way out of.

We have already stated that resistance fighters don't fight in "uniform" they are civilians, civilians who would rather be operating their businesses, or tilling their fields except for the fact that a group of murdering Europeans have flooded in and occupied their land giving them no other option.

What about the cowardly settlers who are both armed and use their weapons to harass Palestinians and steal their land and posessions, all of which is allowed by the Israeli government?
Do you know which group of "cowardly fighters" sang this song?
Unknown Soldiers are we, without uniform
And around us fear and the shadow of death
We have all been drafted for life.
Only death will discharge us from [our] ranks,
 
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Can you two calm down, please? So we can have a constructive discussion. You will never convince the other to change side, why even bother to try to change another person's opinion? If we can agree the both sides in this conflict have committed atrocties. The balance of military power is not equal between the fighting parties.

Hey! Canada has a long honorable history of peacekeeping missions. I think we need Canada here
 
Ahh Ghostrider, the canucks have stuffed up as well in the peacekeeping role.
Their commando reg/airborne beat to death some African kid some years ago.
Quite the political bomb when it went off!
 
Can you two calm down, please? So we can have a constructive discussion. You will never convince the other to change side, why even bother to try to change another person's opinion?
I'll make my decision on that when I see what stupid comment our Zionist puppet comes up with.

You never agreed with me either, but I seem to remember that I had no problems with your views,...
 
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Can you two calm down, please? So we can have a constructive discussion. You will never convince the other to change side, why even bother to try to change another person's opinion? If we can agree the both sides in this conflict have committed atrocties. The balance of military power is not equal between the fighting parties.

Hey! Canada has a long honorable history of peacekeeping missions. I think we need Canada here

I know I can't convince him but I can expose his twisted comments and bending of the truth.

We Belgians don't have good memories of peace missions headed by a Canadian General. (Rwanda)
 
I know I can't convince him but I can expose his twisted comments and bending of the truth.

We Belgians don't have good memories of peace missions headed by a Canadian General. (Rwanda)

Yes, I remember, I tried to be funny, with a minor success. In my point of view, the problem (Israel/Palestine/the area) we need to change focus from what happened in the past, we can learn from the past (hopefully, it does not happen so often) and use the knowledge to come up with comprehensive solutions/suggestions. It will never work with an approach of you did! No you did! Things like that are not so constructive. I am extremely critical toward Israel sometimes and likewise I am extremely critical toward the Palestinians sometimes. The Flotilla to Gaza could have been handled differently. However, I am not critical toward the IDF soldiers deployed on the ships, I am critical toward the people that placed them there
 
We have already stated that resistance fighters don't fight in "uniform" they are civilians, civilians who would rather be operating their businesses, or tilling their fields except for the fact that a group of murdering Europeans have flooded in and occupied their land giving them no other option.

A Palestinian poll (you know it because I posted it) showed that only 5,5% support your case of using violence against Israel.

Civilians are improving their businesses as the growth in GDP in the West Bank and Gaza shows. When those 5,5% stop their violence then it would be even better for the economy. Read this : Economy of the Palestinian territories

Excerpt : "Tourism to Bethlehem, which had doubled to 1 million in 2008, rose to nearly 1.5 million in 2009. New car imports increased by 44 percent. New shopping malls opened in Jenin and Nablus. As an outcome of the Palestine Investment Conference, Palestinian developers are planning to build the first modern Palestinian city, Rawabi.
In 2010, Ramallah was described as a hub of the economic activity thanks to the improved security situation, successful battle against corruption and large consumer base."

Your "resistance fighters" are endangering the prosperity outlook for the Palestinian people as well as their lives.
 
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