Israeli commandos

[KJ]

CS are not always effective on open seas and with a helorotor overhead. The gas disperse too quickly.

Non leathals are a gamble in the sence that they are quite easy to protect oneself from if you know how to do it.
The LRAD are all about useless if you don´t get protesters to stand in a line infront of it without earprotection.
Not hard to create one if you are atleast semiprepared as these militants seems to have been.
When fiering live rounds at legs in tigh quarters you are bound to rip a few arteries with your shots, nomatter how aimed they are.

Basic point, when the first soldier lost his sidearm to the activists that was a gamechanger.
You don´t bring nonleathals to a gunfight.

Boarding a hostile ship without using deadly force is a tricky task.
That has once again been proven.

//KJ.

 

[mmarsh]

They obviously wasn't expecting any heavy resistance on the boat so there were no need to use flashbangs etc. before boarding it.
And to answer your second question as well; no, flashbangs would not have been as effective on an open boat deck with a helicopter hovering above as in a room, so using that probably wouldn't be an option anyway, but there are other things they could have done if they knew about the resistance they were about to face below. (but I wont go any further into this)

Again, I find this totally unbelievable. I'll try and stay on topic here but I simply cannot believe the Israelis would be naive enough to think they wouldn't face resistance. Its like the KKK marching into Harlem NYC and not expect violence. My military experience is approximately less than zero and even I can say that if you drop Israeli commandos in amongst Palestinian activists (or even Arabs in general) there is going to be violence just as 2+2=4. Heck, there is even violence in PARIS between Jews and Palestinians about whats happening in the ME, its simply unbelievable to think Israel didn't expect it with their little raid.

I think it was a deliberate provocation. As you said there were other tactics they could have used like a water cannons, and sonic weapons on patrol boats that could have disabled the crew without the Blitzkrieg reenactment. These devices are what civilians effectively use to deal with Somali Pirates. So why didn't they use them? Why did they take use riskier tactics almost assured to cause a violent confrontation? Why did they use Marine Commandos and not the Police? Why didn't they wait until the ship was actually INSIDE Israel? The commandos might have been lightly armed, but TV News has been showing Israeli snipers on board the helicopters, I am sure they had backup. The excuse of unarmed commandos that were merely-defending themselves...baloney.

I would point out that tape (and another unreleased one) you showed only showed 1 minute of appropriately 60 minutes. We never actual see the actual gun-play. Nor have the Israelis provided proof that th Palestine's actually got hold of a pistol. (More BS, IMHO).
We did find out that one victim was shot once in the chest, four times in the head. That doesn't sound like self-defense, its sounds more like a public execution, or how a unarmed Australian peace-activist was wounded. Not surprisingly, the Israelis are refusing to show the entire tape unedited.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/6/2/872387/-Israel-Must-Release-the-Full-Raid-Tapes

 

[Redleg]

Again, I find this totally unbelievable. I'll try and stay on topic here but I simply cannot believe the Israelis would be naive enough to think they wouldn't face resistance.

If you look at a couple of my other posts here you can see that I have already posted why I believe they didn't expect any heavy resistance on this last boat. They boarded 4-5 boats before that one without any violent confrontations, and the Israelis themselves have also admitted that they did underestimate the amount of resistance they met on the Mavi Marmara.
You really don't bring paintball guns if you expect to meet well trained and well prepared militant activists on a ship....
So all in all it was a pretty big clusterf**k by both sides there in my opinion.

As you said there were other tactics they could have used like a water cannons, and sonic weapons on patrol boats that could have disabled the crew

Yes, there are other tactics that could have been used if they knew what was waiting for them on the deck of the boat.
But since they chose to board it armed with non-lethal weapons (sidearms are always carried as a last resort in "soft" operations, so they really don't count) I would still say that they really wasn't prepared for that kind of heavy resistance.
All evidence I see leads towards that.

 

[senojekips]

You don´t bring nonleathals to a gunfight.

//KJ.

And conversely you don't bring lethal weapons unless there is a possibility of resistance. In fact you don't send a military force at all, you send the Customs and Immigration officials,... in daylight.

 

[KJ]

And conversely you don't bring lethal weapons unless there is a possibility of resistance.

IF you decide to send military they WILL bring their sidearms.
Not to use as a first or even a second option but as a last resort.
You never go anywhere without your sidearm, as you who have served know.

In fact you don't send a military force at all, you send the Customs and Immigration officials,... in daylight.

A valid point.
I don´t know how the COC for Israels coastaldefences are constructed.
Maybe a Israeli member could enlighten us further.
Sending commandos at night seems like a tad overkill.

//KJ.

 

[Big_Z]

Yes, they (erroneously) believed this ship would be taken quietly/peacefully like the others were.

I have been on the receiving end of several US Army artillery simulators on open ground ... a couple very close to my position (less than 10 feet). While they certainly get your attention, I can't say they were the least bit debilitating. I just don't know how flash-bangs stack up in comparison.

I would think something like an LRAD (acoustic weapon) could be used to drive the activists below decks. Once below, flash bangs could be used to subdue one compartment at a time.

Trust me, get hit with a flashbang when you are not expecting it and you will be dead in the water for at least a few seconds. Try hearing something like that in a closed in room. It's crippling.