Israel rightfully own the West Bank .

[moshe]

(Israel rightfully own the West Bank) As the Israelis had not occupied the West Bank in the time of the Ottoman occupation of Palestine.

LOL your mixed metaphors make me laugh. What a total idiot. West Bank is a post 1967 term you newspaper Neanderthal. Following the death of king Shlomo the Davidic kingdom split into 2 kingdoms. Samaria was the Capital City of the kingdom of Israel.

 

[senojekips]

What a total idiot. West Bank is a post 1967 term you newspaper Neanderthal.

That is exactly what i was pointing out to you.

---snip---As the Israelis had not occupied the West Bank in the time of the Ottoman occupation of Palestine.

I ask again, Is English your first language? I ask this because you seem to have great difficulty in understanding the simplest statements.

 

[moshe]

(Israel rightfully own the West Bank)

Israel has to date never nationalize Samaria. Israel has nationalized E. Jerusalem and the Golan Heights. Samaria legally qualifies as disputed territories.

As far as this dog chasing its tail argument: ""It doesn't matter whether there is a Palestinian nationality or not (and there is by the way).
Stealing people's land is wrong.""

The Arabs fought and lost multiple wars for the explicit purpose of throwing the Jews into the sea. Wars have their consequences. Like the saying goes: "If you can't do the time ... then don't do the crime." Losers belly aching means nothing. The Arabs lost their war and they must live with the consequences just as we Jews endured 2000 years of exile b/c we lost our war with the Romans.

 

[senojekips]

The Arabs lost their war and they must live with the consequences just as we Jews endured 2000 years of exile b/c we lost our war with the Romans.

In case you are not aware, the Law has changed a little in the last 2000 years. The Palestinians were quite rightfully trying to remove an illegal occupier off their territory. The fact that they did not succeed does not make Israel's actions legal. Here is a copy of the relevant International laws on this matter, for today, not 2000 years ago.

[SIZE=+2]
[/SIZE]8. ILLEGAL MILITARY OCCUPATION: The current Israeli occupation of Palestinian territories is illegal. Military actions and occupations are considered legal only if they are based on self-defense (as Israel claims) or are designed to benefit the native population of the occupied areas, but it is now clear that Israel's occupation is illegal because Israeli implementation of it clearly is about:

• (1) Acquisition of land into Israel by force, and
• (2) Economic exploitation of the occupied areas via building up de facto Annexation on occupied lands --
  • (A) Extensive modification of local laws, and
  • (B) Building Israeli settlements on occupied lands (illegal population transfer),
  • (C) Building separation barrier not on border but through Palestinian communities displacing over 200,000 Palestinian civilians separating them from their families, work, schools, hospitals, etc.
  Source: http://www.israellawresourcecenter.org/internationallaw/studyguides/sgil3.htm

 

[moshe]

Bunk. The UN voted by a 2/3rd majority recognizing the Right of Jews to establish there homeland in the mandated territories. The arabs refused to recognize this UN mandate and attack and suffered disgrace and defeat. That's the end of the story.

 

[moshe]

Now regarding your dubious source: http://www.israellawresourcecenter.o...ides/sgil3.htm

This forced attempt to impose a UN concept of law, it works well in matters of international waters, but Israel aint a boat floating in the sea! The Arabs in their invasion of the Jewish state ignored these "international laws", now that they lost their bid to throw the Jews into the sea, these cry baby losers and their supporters want to pretend that Israel despises international laws etc. Propaganda. This do as i say but not as i do bunk merits total contempt. The Arabs ignored "international law" when they chose to invade the Jewish state. Now that they have suffered defeat they can not demand of Israel to abide by law which they in their turn ignored and despised. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

 

[bulldogg]

What of respecting the law of one's allies? Israel has been caught more than once spying in the US against the US for tech and intel. A friend comes into my house and tries to take something without asking... hmmm, maybe the analogy is wrong, just convenient enemy of your enemy is more likely eh?

The powerful often have contempt for laws which run counter to their interests. There is no shame in this, we all do it. It comes from having no moral compass within but rather only complying with rules when the fear of getting caught is greater than the chances of getting away with it. Why cry foul and name calling? Just grab your sack and man up to it Mozzie.

Just say the words... 'We won the war so we don't give a rat's hairy arse what the losers think. Its ours, we took it.'

Hell its no different than the settlers and the native americans in North America. You don't see white americans whinging and making excuses. We kicked their arses and took their land and that's the way it is. Did the same thing to Mexico when it suited us. History is littered with it, so why the drama?

 

[senojekips]

Now regarding your dubious source: http://www.israellawresourcecenter.o...ides/sgil3.htm

Sorry,... but that "dubious" source, is quoted directly from the findings of the International Courts of Justice and it also clearly defines the International laws that have been broken.

These laws not only apply to International waters, but also to the inhabitants of the Land as was the case with the Nazi War Criminals in the Court at Nuremburg. I hope that you are not implying that the judgments on these criminals was illegal because you "think" International law has no standing in matters on land?

 

[bulldogg]

Maybe Chuck Taylor should have used that one at his trial as a defence.

'We are not on a boat I can kill as many people as I want.' - Bashir/Taylor/Pol Pot

 

[moshe]

All nations have intelligence services. Bulldog your thinking with your Bull if you don't think the US and all other countries don't employ their intel in allied states. Bunk on this do as i say but not as i do holier than thou business.

 

[bulldogg]

So do you have proof that the CIA has spied in Israel against Israel trying to obtain technology and/or intelligence? See there is proof the Israelis have done this... so what can you prove my friend?

 

[moshe]

Come off it Sin, "Sorry,... but that "dubious" source, is quoted directly from the findings of the International Courts of Justice and it also clearly defines the International laws that have been broken."

The Arab invasion of Israel in the 1948 war clearly proved the Arabs contempt for these "international laws" which you hold up as if they were holy. Israel like the Arab states and all all other states on this planet has its own leaders and these leaders legislate laws which meets the interests of that particular nation. The Fat Cats in the UN Israel did not elect to impose laws upon them. Britain does not permit the UN to impose laws on it. More of this "do as i say but not as i do Bunk."

 

[moshe]

Bulldog I am a private citizen, this means that i do not possess the counter intelligence tools to prove the existence of intelligence services. You too lack this means. So What! But if you feel good with your head stuck in the sand ... well with a name that you have that's not to bad a place to stick your head.

 

[senojekips]

The Arab invasion of Israel in the 1948 war clearly proved the Arabs contempt for these "international laws"

There is no International law that prevents the land owners from resisting an occupying force. Also this war had no bearing on whether Israel rightfully owns the west Bank which is what this thread is about.

 

[moshe]

There is no International law that prevents the land owners from resisting an occupying force. Also this war had no bearing on whether Israel rightfully owns the west Bank which is what this thread is about.

Again you dream about share crop farmers being land owners. The Turkish law says otherwise and your pie in the sky bunk means nothing.

 

[bulldogg]

Bulldog I am a private citizen, this means that i do not possess the counter intelligence tools to prove the existence of intelligence services. You too lack this means. So What! But if you feel good with your head stuck in the sand ... well with a name that you have that's not to bad a place to stick your head.

Actually no I don't its a matter of public record because the Israeli spies have been caught, tried and convicted in American courts. Google it if ye dare.

 

[VDKMS]

Sorry,... but that "dubious" source, is quoted directly from the findings of the International Courts of Justice and it also clearly defines the International laws that have been broken.

These laws not only apply to International waters, but also to the inhabitants of the Land as was the case with the Nazi War Criminals in the Court at Nuremburg. I hope that you are not implying that the judgments on these criminals was illegal because you "think" International law has no standing in matters on land?

The situation in the West Bank is more complicated than that. The UN laws are about souvereign states and their inhabitants. Israel is a souvereign state but the Palestinians don't have one. It used to be part of Jordan but they didn't want it anymore and they didn't give it to anyone. In the 1994 Oslo accords Israel and the Palestinians divided the land so the Palestinians could govern their own people. The accord was for 5 years. Up until now, both sides respect more or less that accord. The settlements and the expansion of the settlements are concidered illegal by the UN, but some international lawyers dispute that. Maybe because the land they grab isn't part of any souvereign state. Some palestinans sold their land to Israelis. According to Palestinian law a crime resulting in a death sentence. Abbas so far vetoed them all.

 

[senojekips]

The situation in the West Bank is more complicated than that. The UN laws are about souvereign states and their inhabitants.

Well sadly this is International law which not only covers sovereign states, but anybody on the planet. I'm talking about "our" planet,.... earth, not the Zionist planet where nothing counts unless it favours them.

 

[RayManKiller3]

So do you have proof that the CIA has spied in Israel against Israel trying to obtain technology and/or intelligence? See there is proof the Israelis have done this... so what can you prove my friend?

As we all know, U.S don't exactly need troops or agents on the ground as much as other nations. We have spy satellites you know, and just because your not being called out on being busted publicly doesn't mean that we never been caught spying on allies. Generally this would be kept hush-hush, for nation interest. People know U.S can spy and do spy on any nation it wants to allied, enemy, and even neutral. So your arguement is pretty void. No one likes being spied on, but its a fact that countries spy on other whether allied or enemy if it is in their interests.

 

[bulldogg]

As we all know, U.S don't exactly need troops or agents on the ground as much as other nations. We have spy satellites you know, and just because your not being called out on being busted publicly doesn't mean that we never been caught spying on allies. Generally this would be kept hush-hush, for nation interest. People know U.S can spy and do spy on any nation it wants to allied, enemy, and even neutral. So your arguement is pretty void. No one likes being spied on, but its a fact that countries spy on other whether allied or enemy if it is in their interests.

Ad populum and Petitio principii.

Also known as the logical fallacy of begging the question, ie you haven't proven my argument invalid. You have made an assertion without any proof. In fact it is a matter of public record (Senate congressional hearings annually) that on average the CIA and its operatives break the law in other countries over 100,000 times.

BUT, that is not the issue. The issue is on whether or not anyone has ever been caught, tried and convicted of espionage in Israel working for the US. I'm asking. I don't know the answer. I do know the opposite has occurred more than once in my lifetime.

Truth is what someone believes is true. This does not make it truth for everyone. Facts are 'truth' most people believe are true. Again this does not make them true. Facts change all the time.

Intelligent people understand this and hence the concept of agreeing to disagree. There are certain debates in which conversion of belief will never happen. True intellect is recognising these instances.